To think if you've escaped a war zone, have shelter and food a wristband is no hardship

[Lj17lj]

I might get slammed but I really don't see the issue. I've went on very expensive holidays and festivals and have to wear a wrist band for weeks on end, its fine. When I go to the steam room in local gym I have to wear a band.

I really can't see the issue. It's not the same as forcing a tattoo on someone.

Do you not find a 1472% increase in rape due to uncontrolled immigration a big problem? There is no decimal point missing. 1472% increase is a very big problem, and you are minimising it. www.gatestoneinstitute.org/5195/sweden-rape

Oh yes it is ItWillWSh. Unfortunately I have to go now, will leave all of you far-too-nice-people tripping around on the daisies.

I don't know if I have the energy to articulate this now, but I'll have a go.

More misogynistic cultures are more likely to perpetrate male violence against women and children.

But the same misogyny is also part of British culture. It's less here, but it's still a big part.

And that's the danger.

It means when someone from a highly misogynistic culture comes here - or a culture evolves eg online - they slot nicely into a pre-existing strand of British culture. The Rotherham taxi drivers were enabled by police and officials who call children "sluts", just as the police enabled Derek Warboys in London by not believing women. Many MNers describe being disbelieved and blamed after sexual assaults; there's a reason for the We Believe You campaign.

It's good to recognise areas of particular problem, to target them (eg consent lessons in schools, lessons for new arrivals). But these just aren't going to cut if the RL message outside lessons is, you can attack women and get away with it. Women are there for men's gratification. Etc.

I've been deeply frustrated at some of the more simplistic "war of the cultures: they must learn British culture" stuff. What, that if you're raped by a footballer on camera you can expect to be vilified online and harried out of your home? That British culture?

So if the problems are misogyny and sexual violence, we should call them that. Not use inaccurate proxies like "migrants' cultures". (Obviously migrants cultures can be misogynistic and violent. But the problem is still the "misogynistic and violent" bit, not the "migrant" bit.)

Trouble is, we (Europe) are not equipped to take in so many migrants in one go. No state can be really. We cannot house the whole world

Well European countries decided to work out immigration on a country by country basis rather than unilateral actions - so guess they thought they could which is part of the mess.

Syria is emptying out governments have known about this for ages - why have they not acted!

I dare say there are more british men who would applaud the removal of women's rights than there are muslim men who would do so, purely because there are more british men, ergo more british, male misogynists

Go on Metro comments and its full of white male slut shaming of women on any rape stories yet these guys then have a pop at any ME/Asian guy whose saying the same thing as them.

I think you will have to analyse the causes in more detail. Why don't other even more multicultural countries have similar rape statistics?

For example: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statistics#Sweden

Sorry, that was to Bungo and the Swedish rape statistics from a clearly biased link

Sweden has stricter definitions of sexual crimes and those definitions have changed within the last decade. In addition, prosecuting rape and other sexual offences more vigorously is likely to increase the reporting of those crimes.

Sexual crime statistics are extremely difficult to interpret, not least because the best way to achieve low figures for sex crime is to not record or prosecute it!

Oh yes it is ItWillWSh

So rape is only ever commited by people of Islamic countries then? There's no culture of rape in say, British football or large swathes of America and India?

*I've been deeply frustrated at some of the more simplistic "war of the cultures: they must learn British culture" stuff. What, that if you're raped by a footballer on camera you can expect to be vilified online and harried out of your home? That British culture?

So if the problems are misogyny and sexual violence, we should call them that. Not use inaccurate proxies like "migrants' cultures". (Obviously migrants cultures can be misogynistic and violent. But the problem is still the "misogynistic and violent" bit, not the "migrant" bit.)*

YES!

Machteld Zee has written a book called Choosing Sharia? Apparently there are 85 Sharia councils in Britain.

If the existence of the Magdelene laundries in Ireland hadnt been denied and brushed under the carpet for so long maybe less women and children would have suffered.

The last laundry closed in 1996.....20 years ago. But this was after decades and decades of suffering.

So WW2 is not the only part of history we should be learning from!!!

They were not made to wear the wrist bands to mark them out for abuse, they were made to wear them so staff could identify who got what, and it is not the authorities fault that idiots were attacking those who wear wearing them.

No-one has ever suggested that marking asylum seekers out for abuse was the purpose of this practice, but it really doesn't take more than a couple of minutes' thought to realise that abuse will be the inevitable result. It is also ridiculous to suggest that anyone is unaware that the prime culprits are the knuckle-draggers carrying out the attacks. But why on earth institute a practice which makes it lovely and easy for them to identify the people they plan to attack?

Yes if people meet criteria for asylum they may be allowed to stay here but they must follow our laws

When has anyone ever suggested for one minute that asylum seekers should not be required to follow our laws? Honestly, some people seem to live in a fantasy world.

PMSL at the gatestoneinstitute link.

Did the language used in it not trigger any sense that it was massively biased and you might want to research the source.

Do you have a better, more reliable link to an explanation of the rape statistics?

Have you read the book Helena?

I haven't but have done a bit of Googling. It doesn't sound half as insidious as I first thought after reading your post.

It seems to focus on the religious aspect of marriage, as Muslims can marry religiously without having a legally recognised civil marriage. They grant, or in a lot of cases allegedly, don't grant, religious divorce.

The Fail thinks there are 85 such councils, but The Independent only report 30 councils. The number is probably somewhere in between. Either way, they are hardly convicting women to death by stoning or trying to over turn the UK criminal justice system, which is what the majority of Britain First fools would have us believe and what people are afraid of.

Of course it is abhorrent that a religious council would advise a woman to stay in a marriage in which she was unhappy or abused and this should not be tolerated by modern muslims and is not tolerated by UK criminal law (the London Sharia Council condemns the book and says that muslims must respect UK law and civil divorce laws, so it appears that a muslim woman's chance of being granted a religious divorce depends on the individual mosque, with some being more modern and tolerant than others)

It sounds an interesting, but possibly biased book.

Yes, there is misogyny and sexual assault in European countries. Does that mean we should make it worse by importing thousands of young single men from cultures where women have no rights and are treated like cattle?

And if daesh have managed to smuggle 1000 foot soldiers (estimated number of men who organised to commit the NYE assaults) into Germany to stir up hatred against migrants and refugees, then we should be bloody worried about the unintended consequences of mass movements of people.

I havent read Choosing Sharia? But Machteld says she saw a lot of support for women in abusive marriages in Birmingham. But wasnt so supportive in London.

If such a book had been written about the Magdelene laundries in the 1960s /1970s i can imagine the same arguments being used. And that there arent as many of these laundries as you think.

Women were imprisoned in these laundries for years.... sometimes decades. And it was ignored and played down for a long time.

So yes we DO have to learn from history......in more ways than you think.

It is and quite rightly too being looked into by parliament shortly. Hopefully they'll make sure that British Muslim women's rights are being upheld, as per British law, although tbh, I have about as much faith in Tories supporting women's rights as I would a Sharia council.

People are kidding themselves if they think countries like Saudi treat women as well as the UK does. So of course we follow our laws in deciding who can enter the UK but once they are here they have to follow our laws and we apply those without fear or favour whether against priests, fathers and step fathers (sadly the biggest offenders of all despite what the press implies) and anyone else. Not stopping about 1m young men without jobs and many without qualifications or language skills coming to the EU was never going to go end well.

May be we could try a sister swap - every male refugee is swapped with his sister left behind in Syria and the men have to stay and mind the children in the homeland whilst the women earn and have freedom here and learn our values of equality and fairness,

Not stopping about 1m young men without jobs and many without qualifications or language skills coming to the EU was never going to go end well.

Many Syrians are degree educated and have been forced to leave behind well paid, professional careers. Just as many were in the process of qualifying and want to finish their education. Most speak English.

Very true, Itwillwash. I think most want to ind work or continue in education, things they can't do in Syria now.

If people are refugees then they are refugees irrespective of whether they are male or female. It is just bizarre to suggest male refugees are automatically less deserving of help than female ones. It is quite simply wrong to say that the mere fact that a refugee is male means we must assume he is a misogynist arsehole unworthy of any help. We have to treat each applicant on his or her own merits.

www.catholicherald.co.uk/commentandblogs/2013/02/25/the-magdalen-laundries-were-used-as-reformatories-where-girls-were-sent-without-due-process-but-they-were-not-brutal-anti-catholics-have-lied-about-them/comment-page-1/

Chilling.

People are kidding themselves if they think countries like Saudi treat women as well as the UK does.

Who thinks that?

I'd also like to know where in "the homeland" the men should raise the children while the women enjoy the trappings of western civilisation?

Perhaps they'd build baby-proofed shelters from the rubble?