to ask what the issue is with golliwogs

[TheoriginalLEM]

not a goady thread. i know they are racist and idiots from Britain first are posting pictures on Facebook. I just wondered what the history is?

i remember them from the 70s and i remember feeling uncomfortable with them then.

I had one of dolls as a young child and I honestly thought it was a character like little ones look at iggle piggle for example. I can remember it disappeared one day and I can only guess my parents found it offencive and got rid as I am pretty sure it was given by my grandparents.

abbie

phew - i hope i didn't keep people up with this. Am afraid i snored through it.

having skimmed through there are some interesting answers.

I think someone upthread nailed it in as much as actually they have always been racist but in the 70s and before people still didn't think it was such a bad thing. I think i was confused because why then didmy parents buy me one of these dolls when they knew what they represented.

I guess the answer, sadly, is that they were casually racist :( They used words like wog and the p word. Horrible really. Thankfully like most people they must have realised that this wasn't ok.

Interestingly, i have a little set of books that i must have got from a charity shop to read to dd when she was younger. These had overtly racist comments in and i had to finish the story very quickly assign them to the bin. I think they were probably writtem in the 80's.

Thanks for the biscuits, in all my 8 years on mn they are my first. I am sorry if this thread upset anyone (but would be stunned if it did) but i hope people saw it as a thread discussing racism rather than a racist thread.

I abhor racism but the golliwog hand wringing that rears its head occasionally is sad and laughable in equal measure.

Hand wringing Lord? You mean 'objections'?

"Hand wringing Lord? You mean 'objections'?"

I mean the totally unreasonable, overblown and often entirely fake objections. Hand wringing.

Aha. In what way 'fake'?

I'm with fidel, I'd love it if you'd quote me an "unreasonable" or "fake" objection from this thread?

No need for hand wringing, gollywogs are history. Its about good manners and decency. They are well known to be offensive to many people. You can either be an arse and keep your historical / racist artifacts on display. Or show some sensitivity and quietly get rid of them. Would you wear a gollywog t shirt to say Notting hill carnival, probably not because even the thickest person might realise that might be offensive. Be polite, kind and thoughtful and you cant go far wrong.

"Aha. In what way 'fake'?"

I just don't believe it when hear people are offended by the sight of a golliwog or the fact that golliwog a exist. It's like being offended that history exists. A nonsense. In my opinion.

"I'm with fidel, I'd love it if you'd quote me an "unreasonable" or "fake" objection from this thread?"

No. I made no reference to the content of this thread when I made my comments.

Then was the point of your comment, or just a general oh whoa political correctness gone mad aside?

I mean the totally unreasonable, overblown and often entirely fake objections. Hand wringing.

Such as? Give an example. Especially of the fake.

So it is ALL objections to gollys that you consider 'fake', then?

History can be offensive. Slavery is offensive to me. The gollywog image was born out of slavery. White slave owners described slaves as having black skin, huge eyes, giant lips, woolly hair.

Gollywogs and minstrels originated from this idea. Minstrels would put on shows for their slave owners to entertain them and this led to many minstrel shows America and in England.

To deny the gollywog is racist is to deny its racist roots.

Abbie if your rudely shouting post refers to mine just above it then you have misunderstood me badly.

"So it is ALL objections to gollys that you consider 'fake', then?"

No.

"History can be offensive."

True. This doesn't mean that history should be banned.

I just don't believe it when hear people are offended by the sight of a golliwog or the fact that golliwog a exist. It's like being offended that history exists. A nonsense. In my opinion.

They're museum pieces. That's where they should be. Along with minstrel shows, Der Sturmer and Apartheid racial classification handbooks.

No one said it should be binned. But to insist gollywogs are inoffensive because historically they were acceptable to white people is denying that they are offensive to black people.

"To deny the gollywog is racist is to deny its racist roots."

Well yes and no. The golliwog undoubtedly has racist roots but inanimate objects are not in and of themselves "racist". People are.

The moral outrage triggered at the mere mention or sight of a golliwog is disproportionate and silly. I know that I personally can look at a golliwog and endure the existence of golliwogs in history without turning in to a huge fat steaming racist and I'm sure everyone else can too.

"Then was the point of your comment, or just a general oh whoa political correctness gone mad aside?"

I was just giving my opinion on the issue of golliwogs, with no underlying agenda.

CuttedUpPair, I don't think abbie's post was rude, just frustrated. And I don't think it was aimed at you.

(Sorry to speak for you abbie)

"No one said it should be binned. But to insist gollywogs are inoffensive because historically they were acceptable to white people is denying that they are offensive to black people."

Offendedness is a subjective matter, so I wouldn't dream of saying that golliwogs are not offensive. They are to some people. But there are degrees of offence and I think some people really overdo it on this issue in order to project an image about themselves. I think that's crass, cynical and self-serving.

I don't direct that any individual here, just a general comment.

The moral outrage triggered at the mere mention or sight of a golliwog is disproportionate and silly. I know that I personally can look at a golliwog and endure the existence of golliwogs in history without turning in to a huge fat steaming racist and I'm sure everyone else can too.

Why don't you start your own thread and have a nice chat amongst yourself Lord?

It is glaringly apparent that you haven't read this one.