to ask what the issue is with golliwogs

[TheoriginalLEM]

not a goady thread. i know they are racist and idiots from Britain first are posting pictures on Facebook. I just wondered what the history is?

i remember them from the 70s and i remember feeling uncomfortable with them then.

Wikipedia talks about an an American woman called Florence Upton.

"In order to afford tuition to art school, she illustrated a children's book entitled The Adventures of Two Dutch Dolls and a Golliwogg. The 1895 book included a character named the Golliwogg, who was first described as "a horrid sight, the blackest gnome", but who quickly turned out to be a friendly character, and is later attributed with a "kind face"

That would suggest that yes, it was always inherently racist.

And again this info took 10 seconds to find.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golliwog#History

Lost I find your post a bit worrying we still live in a racist world, as evidenced by the very unpleasant comments made to your sister. I would nt want any child but especially a black or mixed race child to have to see a gollywog doll and just think that was ok. I would mention it discretely and then never go back to their house if it was still on display next time I went round.

Like pp said it has always been racist. It's a clear piss-take of a black person. I'm shocked that you can't see it and wondering if it isn't Jeffery up to his old tricks again

Agree with a PP. we live in a very racist world. And racism directed at white people is also a big problem.
However the issue seems to be overshadowed by those who make certain lifestyle choices calling anyone who doesn't agree with/dislikes their particular choices 'racist' when it clearly is nothing to do with their race

Lem - you have done nothing wrong by asking

Agree. Mis-phrase your OP and a shitstorm inevitably breaks out. It's easily done

haven't read the thread sorry
took me a while to understand the issue and i'm someone who spends a lot of time and effort on ethical issues....not sure I 100% understand but the racist term "wog" is a shortened version of golliwog I reckon, so I think that's a big part of the problem. No one would sell dolls that were called the N word...
And I guess it's a stereotyped and cartoon-ised version of a whole ethnic minority....
There's more I can write but life with a newborn....I'm finding it hectic

Lost. I fail to see how your comment (pasted below) pertains to this thread:

However the issue seems to be overshadowed by those who make certain lifestyle choices calling anyone who doesn't agree with/dislikes their particular choices 'racist' when it clearly is nothing to do with their race

Are you trying to say that Golliwigs aren't racist? They are hardly a 'lifestyle choice'.

Lost

My sister has a mixed race child and she would dream of screaming racism if someone had a golliwog doll

Just because your sister has a mixed race child, it does not make her (or you) an authority on what is or is not offensive to black people.

I bet on sight of that thread title some posters almost set their key boards on fire in their desperation to get on here and give you a good telling off OP .

Ffs
Nope. Wasn't saying that at all. So stop looking for hidden meanings so you can jump on your high horse.
And as for 'lifestyle choice' I clearly stated it was nothing to do with RACE. But the ones who cry racism because of their 'lifestyle choice' are effectively mocking the people who are victims of discrimination because of their race.
See how nobody jumped on the line about racism toward white people.
A lot of the black people I know would simply ignore golliwog memorabilia and the like, and would only be offended if someone actually called them or compared them to one.

Nicki really, you consider the posts on this thread "a good telling off"?

Have you not been on MN for long?

The responses have been fairly measured really. If LEM* wasn't a reasonably well known and fairly sensible poster she'd have been flamed to little crispy pieces.

I understand now the point she meant to raise from her follow up posts but it was an ill considered OP.

I've been on MN ages thanks

What do you mean by a 'lifestyle choice'? You don't get to choose the colour of your skin, Lost.

Have you not been on MN for long?

Hardly. She's integral to the structure

And she's right; LEM was getting a good biscuiting

By your reasoning, Lost, your sister is crying racism because she made a 'lifestyle choice' to have a baby with a black man.

Lost I'm in no way on a 'high horse'. I politely asked for clarification of your post because your points about 'lifestyle choices' are irrelevant to this thread.

This thread isn't discussing lifestyle choices. It's discussing the history of a toy.

And no one has 'jumped' on your comment about racism to white peoples because a) it's also irrelevant to this thread and b) no one would disagree that there are those who are prejudiced against white people.

Have you actually read what I said??
I said people using the racist card with regard to their lifestyle choice - which is nothing to do with the colour of their skin

here

My children and I were looking in a toy shop in the north east once. There were golliwogs in the window among other toys, teddies and dolls. A black American family came along. I felt a little uncomfortable as they looked in the window. The father cried "Look golliwogs dolls." They went in ...to buy there kids one each!

Their

Aw come on fidel this doesn't even rank as a 5 on the MN flaming Richter scale.

Besides LEM's a big girl I'm sure she's got her flame proof knickers on.

Nicki so noted, I'll add you to my spreadsheet. 😄

Perhaps it would be useful to discuss the tradition of dehumanising racist caricature to which these dolls belong. The English-American author Florence Upton invented the golliwog in a series of picture books produced at the onset of the Jim Crow laws, which mandated racial segregation in the American South. She described the character as "a horrid sight, the blackest gnome". He was clothed in the same apparel as the black-faced minstrels then prevalent in Europe and North America. He had thick lips, unruly black hair, and his hands and feet were paws.
Richard Seymour.

Exactly Ditsy
It's not down to anyone other than black people to decide whether they are offended by them.