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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to ask what the issue is with golliwogs

224 replies

TheoriginalLEM · 23/01/2016 21:54

not a goady thread. i know they are racist and idiots from Britain first are posting pictures on Facebook. I just wondered what the history is?

i remember them from the 70s and i remember feeling uncomfortable with them then.

OP posts:
abbieanders · 23/01/2016 23:10

See how nobody jumped on the line about racism toward white people

Yeah, it is hard to know where to tackle the unbelievable guff you're coming out with, but being black is a lifestyle choice is probably the one few people have heard before.

fidel1ne · 23/01/2016 23:10

No it wasn't a severe toasting Quiet but it was fast Grin

QuietWhenReading · 23/01/2016 23:10

Lost I did read what you said. I just completely fail to understand why it's relevant to a thread about rascist dolls.

Leelu6 · 23/01/2016 23:11

Anyone else really confused by what Lost means by 'lifestyle choices' that allow you to play the race card?

Lostmyxmasspirit · 23/01/2016 23:12

So what are everyone's opinions on the big name retailer selling brown dolls slightly cheaper than white ones?
Just to make things interesting. And before anyone says I'm a racist I'm not. I carried my black dolly proudly as a child and I am so so proud of my beautiful brown niece because she is just fab Smile

fidel1ne · 23/01/2016 23:12

I'm wondering if LEM's okay, TBH.

QuietWhenReading · 23/01/2016 23:13

Leelu so glad it's not just me.

fidel1ne · 23/01/2016 23:14

I carried my black dolly proudly as a child and I am so so proud of my beautiful brown niece because she is just fab

Lost don't take this the wrong way but you're being weird.

Leelu6 · 23/01/2016 23:16

But Lost, you stated that your sister wouldn't dream of being offended by gollywog dolls. She's not black so why does she get to decide if they are offensive? Her daughter can decide when she is older.

GiddyOnZackHunt · 23/01/2016 23:21

My understanding is it's the 'blacked up' minstrel connection that's the root cause of the problem. They aren't dolls resembling black people but rather dolls of ''blacked up' white people doing the whole 'mammy' style routines.

memememum · 23/01/2016 23:22

"TheMouseThatRoared-Like pp said it has always been racist. It's a clear piss-take of a black person. I'm shocked that you can't see it"

VERY obvious. A friend of mine has described to me his feeling uncomfortable and sad as a little boy in the seventies seeing gollies and the black and white minstrel show. They were the ONLY depiction (let alone having real black people) of black people in his experience of popular culture. This isn't something made up to suit PCism, he was describing the honest feelings of a 4 year old.

Leelu6 · 23/01/2016 23:22

I carried my black dolly proudly as a child'

Is this the new 'But I have lots of black friends'?

mudandmayhem01 · 23/01/2016 23:22

A black doll and a gollywog are completely separate things.One is a realistic representation of a baby, one is a hideous caricature of a black person. Baby Bjorn dolls come in white and black and the price is actually the same. I know this as dd had one of each.

Lostmyxmasspirit · 23/01/2016 23:23

Why am I being weird because you say so? You seem to have a negative opinion of a lot of people on MN which I consider weird.
And my niece won't be offended by golliwogs because it will be explained to her that although Their origins are racist, when they are present now either as trinkets in people's homes or on sale in an antiques shop it doesn't mean whoever possesses them is racist. It doesn't mean whoever is selling them or displaying them agrees with black slavery. It's simply a piece of history kept in the same way as memorabilia from the world wars.
Are museums which display items from nazi Germany in WW2 all staffed by people who hate Jews? Nope.
Like a PP said history is history, and it is down to black people to decide what they are and aren't offended by.
The politically correct crew who are offended by a whole host of things which don't actually affect the personally really need to think themselves lucky that they aren't victims of discrimination.
It goes on enough without people fuelling it by constantly saying how offensive things are, WE KNOW and it being said over and over changes nothing. It isn't going to stop the racists, the sexists, the ageists, any other 'ist' you can think of

Lostmyxmasspirit · 23/01/2016 23:24

leelu thanks for your interest in my personal life. My friends come in several colours shapes ages and nationalities thanks for asking

Leelu6 · 23/01/2016 23:27

You still haven't explained what you mean by 'lifestyle choices' , Lost. Why is that? It makes it difficult to engage with your argument.

Leelu6 · 23/01/2016 23:28

I haven't asked you about your personal life at all. I am trying to understand your reasoning.

Lostmyxmasspirit · 23/01/2016 23:30

People claiming to be victims of racism because of their religion. That's a lifestyle choice and makes a mockery of people who are victims of actual racism.

mudandmayhem01 · 23/01/2016 23:31

Golly wogs and nazi memorabilia are history and have a place in museums. I think there is a display about gollywogs in the fantastic museum of childhood. But I don't buy a few gollywogs and swastika cushions in a museum gift shop.

TheMouseThatRoared · 23/01/2016 23:32

What do 'lifestyle choices' have to do with golliwogs?

fidel1ne · 23/01/2016 23:33

And my niece won't be offended by golliwogs because it will be explained to her that although Their origins are racist, when they are present now either as trinkets in people's homes or on sale in an antiques shop it doesn't mean whoever possesses them is racist.

That's really not how it works Lost. The representation of black people in that way is inherently offensive and unreasonable. The 'ah but they mean well' argument doesn't neutralise the golly.

Nobody can dictate to your DN how to feel about them.

NanaNina · 23/01/2016 23:34

Well I still don't know the answer to Lem's query only that racists used to call black people "wogs" and sadly some still do. Also the golliwog doll (as far as I recall) depicted a black person.

All sorts of clever people on here telling Lem off but not giving an answer. They were inoffensive when we were kids - they used to be on jars of jam (gollyberry) and you collected the labels and sent off for a little badge.

Leelu6 · 23/01/2016 23:34

So what are everyone's opinions on the big name retailer selling brown dolls slightly cheaper than white ones? Just to make things interesting.

Maybe shops think white people buy white dolls, black people buy black dolls etc etc? No idea if it's true. There are more white people in the UK, so could be that white dolls are more likely to sell.

Not sure how it's relevant?

fidel1ne · 23/01/2016 23:35

Dawn and I have both posted good links Nina. Honest Smile

Lostmyxmasspirit · 23/01/2016 23:36

Funny that fidel because you seem to do a lot of dictating on MN to absolute strangers. And I'm sure you will for many years to come