To think that this is the end of women's athletics?

[fidel1ne]

And women's international sport generally?

Transgender competitors will be allowed to compete as the gender of their choosing pre-operatively and after just one year of hormone treatment.

Rather flies in the face of the logic that means that elite athletes can be banned for taking an over the counter cold remedy

Quite. Doping (rightly) illegal, yet conversely hormone therapy absolutely fine

Would anyone else be interested?

Me.

Further erosion of women's hard won rights. I'm really pissed off now at the way society / the media is bending over backwards to accommodate transgender people to the detriment of us women.

Well the other question is, at what age is it no longer appropriate for girls to participate in athletics?

raises hand too

I've avoided talking about this anywhere other than Mumsnet. But I'll join a group. We've tried sitting quietly and only talking about this in safe spaces such as Mumsnet, and look where we are.

I have a son who competes at a national level in an Olympic sport.

Hes currently in the top ten in his age group ( for boys ) but he could easily be the number one girl ( they train together and he regularly beats her ) .

And as far as I can see, he could keep a male gender identity for all the rest of his life ( school , socially ) and simply say he was a girl when he plays his sport - is that right ?

Ok, so I'm not going to do that . But I can think right now of one family who would. They have already done equally crazy things to get their children to succeed in their sport . if you are not involved in sport at this level, it's hard to understand that some people will do anything to win .

I'm just wondering if any of you have a solution where both women, and transgender people (genuine ones, obviously, rather than just taking the treatment for this reason) could take part in an event such as this without either feeling marginalised and stomped on?

I can think of no viable way for a competitor with the advantageous physical attributes associated with a male physiology to fairly compete against competitors who were born with a female physiology.

This is insanity.

Well the other question is, at what age is it no longer appropriate for girls to participate in athletics

Why is this a question?

But I can think right now of one family who would. They have already done equally crazy things to get their children to succeed in their sport .

I can think of two that would. Their boys always do as they are told, at least when it comes to the sport. It's sad to watch but I know these families would.

I am definitely up for doing something.

I just texted the link to our dojo owners. We have discussed this in the past. Will update on their response. It's a husband and wife who own it so will be interested in their response.

I'd join a group but to have any influence it would need a figure head
I wonder if there is an existing group we could support
Does Julia Long, was that her name?, belong to a women's group
She put up a good argument against JM

They have just been talking 'gender' on BBC news
A Jewish woman was on but I missed her name. She said what a wonderful world now we are accepting gender fluid
She then went on to talk about the Holocaust and the 'othering ' of groups of people
I thought how hypocritical as born women are being silenced and 'othered'

I dunno, I guess this is what it takes for the wider public to realise that us rabid feminists are spot on. Don't think it'll be abused? I can't remember the poster who mocked us for suggesting it - look at Maryz's link to the Iranian women's football team 8 ARE MEN. Right now. This is already happening.

God this makes me so angry, I don't quite know what to do with it. So I guess count me in too.

I would be interested in joining a group.

I've written to my mp and the minister in charge of prisons about trans issues. No replies as yet but I think that's a good place to start, we could write to the minister for culture, media and sport.

I'm up for it too.

Rabbi Laura Janner-Klausner (Reform), mother of a 24 year old 'non-binary' adult child, Babylon.

I suppose more and more of us will have DC who 'come out' as this and that and the DC then instruct on acceptable terminology and 'right think'. I don't know what to say about it really

I'd join a group but to have any influence it would need a figure head
I wonder if there is an existing group we could support
Does Julia Long, was that her name?, belong to a women's group

There's nothing wrong with forming as a group and being there in numbers ready to lend support to anyone who says anything sensible.

I didn't think this could be serious. But it is.

What can be done? Something needs to be, we've all dropped down the fucking rabbit hole.

I'd join in. I am beyond furious at this. And the vast majority of people doesn't seem to get it. And they need to.

we've all dropped down the fucking rabbit hole.

That's how I feel

Some will say that it doesn't matter, that only "true" TG women would want to compete, that no man would want to inflict unnecessary changes or damage to their body unless they truly felt they were female.
But elite athletes have always be willing to risk fucking up their bodies.
Even highly respected ones- I doubt Steve Redgrave's training schedule, food intake and insulin use regime would ever appear in a leaflet about How to safely control your diabetes.
Female athletes frequently stop menstruating with no guarantee their periods will return, a lot of premier footballers will need knee replacements before they reach 50, rugby players risk broken necks every time they walk on to the pitch. For some, reaching the pinnacle of your sport means doing whatever it takes

I just had to Google this, because when I read the thread, I was sure it had to be a hoax that had somehow fooled everyone. I am gobsmacked to realise this is actually being allowed to happen.

Alcon, I think the vast majority of people still assume that common sense is being applied somewhere. Like someone on another thread who commented that of course 6ft hairy bikers wouldn't be able to just walk into women's space.

Except they will.

I just had to Google this, because when I read the thread, I was sure it had to be a hoax that had somehow fooled everyone

Me too

So, I have a racehorse who I know isn't going to do very well in the 2000 guineas. But it's fine because he now identifies as a filly and has had some hormone therapy, which still grants him/her advantage over his/her 'fellow' fillies...so we've entered him/her into the 1000 gns.

S/he's the favourite to win. Weird, right?! Couldn't compete in his own field...but hands down fave for this race.

How could a man, in all conscience, see this as a fair 'fight' - whether it be a fight/race?! Wouldn't you just be given the gold medal, or whatever, and be all shamefaced?!! WTF.

Geldings are still stronger than fillies.

Biology is biology.

Garlicbake, 10nmol/L is the current upper limit for female athletes.This is being reconsidered after a challenge by a female athlete with hyperandrogen syndrome, as I linked below. The IAAF red to demonstrate that high T levels confer a competitive advantage. Otherwise the max level could go. So the level for trans women could not have been set lower than this.