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To think that this is the end of women's athletics?

1000 replies

fidel1ne · 23/01/2016 21:38

And women's international sport generally?

Transgender competitors will be allowed to compete as the gender of their choosing pre-operatively and after just one year of hormone treatment.

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Italiangreyhound · 24/01/2016 01:20
Grin
CozyLinusBlanket · 24/01/2016 01:20

I suspect there are a large number of men that watch women's sports because they enjoy watching the female form in motion. I imagine these men will stop watching.

Tbh, I wouldn't care if that kind of man stopped watching, few things irritate me more than when I'm watching a really good technical fight and all the men care about is whether they can see camel toe or not, but I'm sure they'd pick up plenty of male viewers who enjoy watching women getting beaten to a pulp, so it would balance out.

LieselMeminger · 24/01/2016 01:25

Didn't Fallon Fox initially lie about her trans status in order to compete as a woman? I think there were also some nasty comments/tweets made about her opponents by her, gonna make her bleed type stuff? It's late and I could be getting her mixed up.

I remember she posted/linked a video with tests that was supposed to dismiss claims she has an unfair advantage. It showed a male and female boxer making a punch and the woman's punch registering stronger, or them punching a blindfolded man with him saying the female lunch was the hardest. But semi pro both boxers commented that both were not doing the same punch, the female was doing a much stronger one than the male (I don't know exact technical terms, but comparing uppercut to a jab) and when they looked at the exact like for like results, ( which were not shown in the vid) so when both did the same punch, the male was much more powerful.

I will try find the link in morning, but I deme red thinking, if there was no unfair advantage then you'd show male and female doing like for like.

Dh loves boxing, and goes to local matches, but he wouldn't watch a man beating up a woman, and thinks it's shocking it's allowed. However, he said he'd not be suprised if some men he's met at matches would pay even more money to watch a woman being beat up by a man.

I like the group idea, the vocal minority TA on twitter may make threats and stuff though so it's something to take into consideration. A couple of women I chat to on twitter had their personal details posted online and employer contacted for speaking about this a few months ago.

LieselMeminger · 24/01/2016 01:27

*Shall we all say now who would be up for if? So far me , fidel and italiangreyhound have said we would.

Would anyone else be interested?*

Raising my hand.

liz70 · 24/01/2016 01:32

"Do you ever wonder if you'll wake up and it will be 1999?"

I bloody hope not! The idea of having to go through DD1 growing up all over again terrifies me. She's great now at 16, but she was a nightmare child! Grin

LagoonaBlu · 24/01/2016 01:38

What are the 'hyperandrogeny rules' regarding female athletes, that the report refers to on page 3?

That seems to be something already in page, for actual female athletes??

Is there any further information about this? Any discussions or debates that happened as a prequel? Someone much have spoken up in defence of women?

Has there been any response from anyone?

LagoonaBlu · 24/01/2016 01:51

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3412969/Olympics-change-policies-allow-transgender-athletes-compete-without-having-gender-reassignment-surgery.html

One of the 'female' medical officers on the committee is a TW

I wonder if any women were in the discussion?

Bambambini · 24/01/2016 02:20

Seems Fallon posted on a MMA site moaning about how the woman fighter who beat her was a cheat as she tested positive for a diuretic. The thread didn't go well considering many of the posters think Fallon is cheating very time he/ she enters the ring.

GarlicBake · 24/01/2016 02:38

Raising my hand. - Me too.

GarlicBake · 24/01/2016 03:32

I've been trying to clarify whether this 10 nmol/L threshhold now applies to women as well - and whether they will be permitted to take 'hormone replacement therapy' to achieve it.

Might have to wait for more press comments to find out for sure. I suspect that what's happened is an athlete is now a 'woman' if she has less than the specified testosterone level, but only women with testicles are allowed to chemically manipulate their hormones.

This means that women with seriously anomalous endocrine systems (or ovarian cancer) would still be able to achieve the muscular bulk, strength and explosive power afforded by high testosterone. So would transwomen.
But female athletes with naturally healthy hormone levels are written out of the picture.
They'd probably have lost to a hyperandrogenic woman anyway, but this change will drastically alter the balance - all women's sports that require strength will become dominated by bulky, testosteroney athletes.

The hormone rule doesn't in any way answer the difference between male & female skeletal structures, but I think I'm more intensely offended by the re-definition of 'woman'. It has already happened; I just don't think most people have yet realised how pervasive these changes are.

notonyurjellybellynelly · 24/01/2016 03:39

I really think women have to stand up for themselves here, threaten a boycott of the olympics or something. It is absolutely ludicrous

Yes.

The whole idea behind this hair-brained scheme is sickening. The world has gone mad.

WanderingNotLost · 24/01/2016 04:20

MrsG with you all the way

HumphreyCobblers · 24/01/2016 06:14

Thank you all of you who explained the hormone level thing to me. I see it now.

I just can't believe what I am reading about this. Absolutely insane. I too worry for my daughter.

MistressDeeCee · 24/01/2016 06:25

I really think women have to stand up for themselves here, threaten a boycott of the olympics or something. It is absolutely ludicrous

This, x 100. I don't care if they are Transwomen - we as biological women are having our rights eroded at every turn, in terms of womens rights we are and have been going backwards for a long while. Our voices matter less and less. There's already a trans boxer in USA beating women to a pulp, and now this? I get the feeling its deemed not "pc" to have anything unsupportive said of transwomen, and Im sure there are some who are just going about their daily lives quietly. But its the ones that are so out there in wanting to be not just women, but MORE than women who grate on me. Invading our spaces as much as possible.

Although I feel the boxing crowd wouldn't go for the transwomen fighting biological women thing, I do believe there are men who most certainly would pay to see a woman get beaten up by a transwoman who has the advantage of being physically stronger. It really is a distasteful precedent to set and further proof that more and more in time to come, what we say will be meaningless and we'll be deemed hysterical little women if we protest

I see this as a certain type of man re-asserting himself over women by any means he can. They may be purport to be women physically, but mentally that need for superiority over women is certainly there. Awful. I hope there is a strong boycott of the Olympics, and mass demonstrations.

Id be interested to hear what female athletes have to say about this

ObsidianBlackbirdMcNight · 24/01/2016 06:45

Yeah, that was a fair fight Hmm
Note fox's sexualised attire next to Brent's low key and functional.

To think that this is the end of women's athletics?
TamaraLamara · 24/01/2016 06:56

Would anyone else be interested?

Me.

mathanxiety · 24/01/2016 07:30

Needfinsnow "Who cares? These silly athletic achievements are nonsense."

Coming soon to a school locker room near you...

“What our client wants is not hard to understand: She wants to be accepted for who she is and to be treated with dignity and respect — like any other student,” said John Knight, the director of the L.G.B.T. and H.I.V. Project of the American Civil Liberties Union of Illinois, who is representing the student. “The district’s insistence on separating my client from other students is blatant discrimination. Rather than approaching this issue with sensitivity and dignity, the district has attempted to justify its conduct by challenging my client’s identity as a girl.”

The right to 'identify' trumps everyone else's rights.

Maryz · 24/01/2016 07:41

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

AlisonWunderland · 24/01/2016 07:52

Rather flies in the face of the logic that means that elite athletes can be banned for taking an over the counter cold remedy.
But it's ok to develop and train as a man up to the age of 18, then partially transition to compete as a female when you're 20

mathanxiety · 24/01/2016 08:01

They tried the privacy curtain. Apparently this was discriminatory because the point of it was to prevent a so-called girl from changing clothes in the midst of all the 'other' girls, thus hinting that the girl wasn't a girl in the sense that humanity normally distinguishes girls from boys. All that matters here is that The Emperor's New Clothes Look Fantastic, not the 'technical' truth that the so called girl has a penis, and to heck with the discomfort of the girls who complained. The rights of a male bodied individual are placed ahead of the rights and interests of those with female bodies. The physical reality of girls and women is being denied.

TheWomanInTheWall · 24/01/2016 08:01

"I'm just wondering if any of you have a solution where both women, and transgender people (genuine ones, obviously, rather than just taking the treatment for this reason) could take part in an event such as this without either feeling marginalised and stomped on? "

There are many people whose physicality restricts them out from professional sport - asthmatics, for one, are limited, because steroid treatments they might take are banned, IIRC (not to mention general lung function).

The decision to transition or not must be hard and will involve sacrifices and benefits. If one of those sacrifices is not being able to be an Olympic competitor, that is a factor in the decision. That's the difference between trans women and women with hyperandrogen syndrome; one has made a choice to start treatment.

TheWomanInTheWall · 24/01/2016 08:02

X post with Alison.

SunsetSinger · 24/01/2016 08:12

This makes me furious. What can we do?

Katenka · 24/01/2016 08:15

It's all bollocks! Just fucking bollocks.

I and my dd compete in kick boxing.

We both spar with males, I. Our own dojo. But no fucking way would I fight with a TG in a competition.

And I sure as hell would not be allowing dd to fight with a boy in competition. Neither would our club leaders.

Essentially a boy who doesn't win against other boys can claim that he is now TG and fight girls?

I know loads of people in competition circles. Kick boxing and other sports. I know there will be some people considering this. They can't compete against the men and win and take their bat and ball home, so they will give this a shot.

No feminist theory or any feminist has said that women are equal in strength to men. I am stronger than dh, do to the training I do. That doesn't make me stronger than all men.

Katenka · 24/01/2016 08:19

I'm just wondering if any of you have a solution where both women, and transgender people

no because bei. Transgender doesn not make you biologically a woman. You can legally become a woman. You can dress as a woman. You can live as a woman and have a woman's name.

But that doesn't change your bone structure, muscle, ligaments etc

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