To think that this is the end of women's athletics?

[fidel1ne]

And women's international sport generally?

Transgender competitors will be allowed to compete as the gender of their choosing pre-operatively and after just one year of hormone treatment.

I agree Caster Semanya had a very rough ride when she'd done nothing wrong. But I can see why the IAAF panicked and didn't make an immediate decision - she was just so fast, and looked to be improving by the day.

The gulf between the way Castor Semenya was treated in mainstream media - having incredibly personal and sensitive details splashed all over - and the way in which Fallon Fox is generally discussed is appalling. Being female with naturally occurring high testosterone levels is apparently less palatable than being a biological male who wants to beat up women.

Women with sons older than 10 are not allowed to take them into Refuge, FGS. (A rule which has been disputed for eons.)

Presumably they will be able to now, fidel. The boy will just have to identify as a girl. Problem solved

Pfft.

It's crazy though, isn't it? The sheer SPEED at which the trans movement have got their own way?

I spoke to my 15 year old son about men identifying as women being allowed into the girls changing rooms at school. I asked him if he thought some of the boys at school would identify as female just to get a look in the girls showers and he said "No, I don't think some of us would i think ALL of us would".

Absolute madness.

It's absolutely crazy. I didn't know that about 10yr old boys not being allowed in refuges. But...men are? This is absolutely indescribably frighteningly insane

from 2012
www.theblaze.com/stories/2012/12/15/50-year-old-transgender-basketball-player-joins-jr-college-womens-team-is-this-fair/

I'm just thinking about all those women over all those decades being forced to make the choice between staying in a violent home with their 11/12/13/14 etc year old precious sons or LEAVING them in those violent homes to get themselves, their daughters and their younger boys to safety.

Because it was an UNBREAKABLE principle that Refuge commitees all over the country would not alter.

And pfft, puff of smoke, and now those objections evaporate.

All of those needless assaults, separations, suffering, psychological damage because of a rule that was eventually torn up in extremely short order for MEN. Who can even quantify that needless damage?

Oh dear, I'm getting very angry.

I don't want to make any assumptions about the woman being interviewed here but to me, she appears cognitively impaired. This is the woman who was knocked out by fallon fox before she was known to be transgender. I know that MMA carries risks of head trauma but there is something kind of disturbing about this interview.

Well not just the women, I'm thinking about the boys too, obviously.

But as a mother, to be forced by the women's movement to look at your children and decide which you could protect Because men (including ALL teens and older boys) were just too dangerous and triggering to let over the threshold.

Have you watched this? It's hard to stomach

How bad are they Obsidian?

I might go for a walk first.

I feel awful, just like I've just watched a man beat a woman

The Brents fight is really disturbing

Agree completely. But this is part of the wider problem that women's rights in general are being quietly reduced to accomodate other more equality valued groups. You only have to look at the Cologne issues. Women at the moment (over on chat another thread is demonstrating this) who mention being concerned about the sharp, unprecedented increase of sexual assault is immediately told they are racist and foolish, and minimising and rationalising takes place to avoid having to engage with the facts of the issue which din't fit the 'on message' narrative. They force it to be all good or all bad, they can't engage with any middle ground.

There is fast coming a time where there is going to have to be serious debate in the UK and Europe as a whole and that middle ground explored about individual and personal freedoms being supported at the expense of others' rights and wellbeing and objective right and wrong/ law.

rumble quite agree - the feelings and freedoms of men seem to be paramount, fuck women.

very much down to Canada's "Toby's Law" which enables people to identify their gender based on an "intrinsic sense of self" and not face any discrimination as a result

So self-determination only legislation and policy is what must be resisted.

Yes, the ridiculous rush to "self identity" being the only thing which now determines your biological sex is hugely damaging.

If someone has gone through extensive counselling and lived full time as the opposite sex for a period of years, I think they should qualify for a GRC which grants them access to some (not all) sex segregated space and allows them to legally change their sex. I would still reserve some places for born women only, but I think that level of commitment dramatically reduces the risk of predators accessing women only spaces.

Hermione. Not for me. It's binary and mutually exclusive. You are a man or you are a woman, and it doesn't matter what you do to yourself or how you present yourself, your definition as one or the other cannot change.

watchers I don't disagree, just trying to find some middle ground

Hermione I think you may be far too sensible and rational to be taken seriously

obs...we just seems like someone not very comfortable with speaking to the press/in public. She doesn't seem as if she has formed strong opinions on the subject... Which she should do admittedly.

She's a fighter isn't she..she's not interested necessarily in trans-issues, feminist issues etc

That's the problem isn't it. So may people being dragged into this unaware