To think that this is the end of women's athletics?

[fidel1ne]

And women's international sport generally?

Transgender competitors will be allowed to compete as the gender of their choosing pre-operatively and after just one year of hormone treatment.

gendertrender.wordpress.com/2014/09/18/fallon-fox-why-hormones-dont-make-a-woman/

Article from Gender Tender.

We need "people" without a horse in the race (so to speak) to agree that it is totally unfair, unsporting and could mean the end of women's sports

You're right.

We also (sadly) need the support of men...otherwise there is a danger of women who think this is unfair looking like they are throwing their toys out of the pram

actually dh said he would be willing to support anything regarding this as would a lot of his male friends.

He feels that we have turned a corner a women's sports and that's it is no longer viewed as 'male' thing. He has seen his daughter flourish through a contact sport. It makes him sick that some male knobheads will be given the opportunity to take this away.

Not that all TG are knobheads but the men who will take advantage of this new rule are knobheads.

This is just so depressing & worrying.

The problem is people speaking out will be called Transphobic (as mentioned up thread re Rotherham & people being worried about being called racist).

Yet again, more & more of women's rights being eroded. I'd get behind a campaign if there was one.

Just gonna c&p my post from the feminism thread...

"Say a transman gets to olympic level something and wins a gold. Every single male will be thinking they are only there because of the testosterone, and they pretty much will be. Even if they did happen to win it based on merit, there would be no way to prove that and still score in the appropriate hormone limits. They will have won a gold medal based entirely on injecting a substance that every single other athlete is banned from touching. I'm sure that will go down like a lead balloon."

To add to this after reading this thread...

Say a particular mans natural testosterone levels average at about 15nmol-1
Transman takes her usual dose and ends up at 10nmol-1. Transman can then up her dose without breaking any doping rules and get her levels up to (in theory) 30nmol-1, whereas other man is stuck at his 15nmol-1!!

While they should care about the womens events anyway, perhaps this is the way to get the men on board?

Is that a likely scenario, though Beyond? (Genuine question, I'm not very good on anatomy and biology.)

It's a good line of argument.

It seems quite unlikely based on the factors like height, reach, muscle mass etc where the born man would have an advantage.

Plus I imagine that elite sportsmen may test higher than average (though in the range) for testosterone anyway; I believe this is true for elite sportswomen.

Oh okay. So that works then

There is a trans man who takes part in the men's duathlon I think. Obviously I'm not saying that they adjust their injected testosterone at all. I'll find a link.

What happened? And when did it happen???

Thinking back to my childhood in the 70s and 80s; young people didn't buy into am this gender horse shit. You couldn't tel the difference half the time between kids; short hair, trainers, jeans, oranges, blue, brown. Then there was new romantic style, punk, mod, grunge, indie....even into the 90s. What the hell happened?

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Mosier

From comments I've seen elsewhere many men are already condemning this new development in women's sport especially in regards to Gabrielle Ludwig and Fallon Fox. Problem is that many men are quite anti transwomen and often the language is not very polite or PC. So whether they are outraged on behalf of women or it's an outlet for their anti trains feelings - hard to tell.

It's hard to believe that common sense just doesn't show how wrong and unfair this is though.

I'd really like to know hat professional sportswomen (and men) are saying about this though. Are the sports magazines, sports pages and tv shows not discussing this?

How did a teeny minority of men manage to completely redefine how we conceive of women's issues?

The 'trans' movement has zero relevance to my life, and if this makes me transphobic, so be it.

I've been thinking about the Facebook group thing. I know people are worried about being labeled as homophobic and I also can't be seen to have controversial views as I have professional contacts and groups amongst my Facebook friends.

I know others set up a seperate id (with a smaller friendship group) for more controversial posts. So anyone that wants to join in but is worried about any real life backlash could also do this?

What will be interesting to see is the distribution of trans women in women's sports. I highly doubt they will be desperate to compete in sports such as artistic or rhythmic gymnastics which have developed specifically for female physiology. But sports in which it's all about speed and power like athletics, cycling, judo etc I expect will be a completely different story, and it is so bloody unfair :(

The other thing to point out is that this has been brought in specifically to benefit trans women, not trans men. A man born a woman competing in mens athletics, swimming etc is simply never going to make it to Olympic level. So this isn't just discriminating against the born female population, but also trans men. It benefits only trans women, who are given the opportunity to compete on an easier playing field.

Surely, given that more and more children are now able to transition whilst they are still young enough to delay unwanted puberty and take hormones to ensure they develop physically as the gender they identify with, the fairer way of doing this would be to allow those who transitioned prior to puberty to compete as the gender with which they have identified the majority of their lives? As opposed to the current situation, which is just ridiculous.

This is the inevitable result of "transwomen are women"

If you really believe that transwomen are women, then there is absolutely nothing wrong with this, it is totally consistent with the ideology that transwomen are women.

We know they're not. But there are many men and women out there, who are either pretending not to know that for their own misogynist ends, or are tying themselves in knots trying to reconcile their desperation not to be thought of as a bigot, with their commonsense and honesty.

Unfortunately all those people appear to have control of most of the national and international institutions which can with one fell swoop, have the power to sweep away reality, history and science. And there's absolutely fuck all women can do about it, unless we recognise and admit what we're up against and then organise against it.

Ah, but its lose-lose for them...

Either they acknowledge the possibility that a TM could heighten their testosterone levels perfectly legally and win, because the TMs physical biology doesnt make a difference...

or...

They have to admit that even with hormone treatment, men and womens biology is just plain fucking different!!

It is a closed group with a (modified to be) innocuous name MrsG, if that allays any fears

This is the inevitable result of "transwomen are women"

Yes, I think you're right. Not the last either. This is really pulling things into sharp focus.

I've read this full thread and just gotten angrier and angrier... what happened in the the world that everyone else's rights came before women's?

Exactly Askbasil

Castor Semanya was treated appallingly; there was no intention to cheat and the most personal information was discussed in very unpleasant terms

Did I read this correctly that a man identifying himself as a female should now be allowed in a woman's refuge?

My mates ex would have id'd himself as
Female to get in the refuge she was in , just to continue the abuse.

Wtf is going on?

I am all for protecting rights but not at the expense of others.

Some of the female Mma are asking for others to not fight Fox because of the unfair advantages.

Where did the olympic get the 1 year from.. When fox tchanged a few years
Ago, a huge study was done and one of the findings was hormones needed for at least two years for any significant change.