My son's ex teachers are sulking with me

[caitlinohara]

I'll try to be brief.

Recently moved ds2 (Y2) to another school because he was deeply unhappy in the class he was in. It was a class of 30 and there were numerous ongoing behaviour problems and he was coming out of school angry and frustrated and often tearful. I raised a few concerns over the last term with the teachers but they were pretty dismissive, although one of the TA's was lovely and really seemed to try to look out for him at playtimes. Eventually decided to move him to a new school and was as open and diplomatic as I could be in the circumstances.

My older son is still at the old school because he is very happy there and will leave in July anyway.

Ds2's old class was a job share and I know both teachers pretty well, since one of them has a son in ds1's class, and the other has a daughter who plays with ds3 at nursery. Since ds2 left, both teachers have barely acknowledged me, although I see one or the other every day when I'm picking up ds1. I texted Teacher 2 the other day to invite her daughter round to play with ds3 and got a curt refusal. Neither has even said hello to ds2 or asked him how he was getting on at his new school. Took Teacher 1's son out the other weekend with mine and she got her dh to drop him off and pick him up and hasn't said thank you when I have seen her since.

I'm not sure what I expected, but I'm struggling to see their attitude as anything but petty and rude. I was really careful not to criticise them as teachers to the head because I wanted to try to stay on good terms with them for everyone's sake but it looks like they have taken offence anyway. I have been very involved in said school over the years. Regularly help out on school trips, run stalls at school fairs, etc etc. It's not me, is it? They are being dickheads, aren't they?

OP the main thing is that your DS is happy in his new school. It can be hard to make that call on removing a child from a school.

They're embarassed and pissed off I'd say, but that's not your fault if you needed to move your ds. I don't think you can move on from this with them unless you honestly don't blame them at all for what happened (which I'm not sure you do as you say they didn't take your concerns seriously). So no-one's being unreasonable. The whole thing is awkward.

I don't think you are being unreasonable and I think they are being dickheads.

I had a similar situation and I'm still good friends with the teacher outside of school. She knows my son didn't thrive. My daughter did. She accepts that it wasn't the right environment for him and it can't be for every child.

Thanks. Of course it is the most important thing, and I suppose I just felt a bit bewildered that having handled the situation in what I thought was the best possible way, there still seem to be negative consequences that I hadn't expected.

mrtwitsglasseye I'm really glad for you that that was the case. Was she always fine about it, or did it take a while? I'm wondering (hoping) whether it is all a bit raw in our case and maybe it will improve over time.

You just need, unfortunately, to forget about them.

Of course they're going to be pissed off. And, rightly or wrongly, will probably have said to each other "would you believe it, she moves ds out of our class....at which we have to give an account to the head, then she expects us to go round and be all muffins and coffee on a playdate with her other kid?"

You were right to move your son. They aren't wrong to now want nothing to do with you.

The important thing is that he is now happy. Forget his old teachers.

I would caution such incestuous relationships in future though. Never works well. I have a friend who is a teacher and has all the parents of her kids on her FB (which I thought was a huge no no anyway) and one minute it's all great and the next it's all not because of some perceived slight in the classroom. It's a very fine line. For everyone.

That comment about the head's wife flinging her arms around you - lovely though that is - makes me think this may be an unusually blurry school in terms of professional/personal relationships. I've never seen our head's wife, nor would I expect them to be in the school and know the kids and parents. Wondering if you're in a small village or somewhere where these relationships can be more intense? Not a criticism, but just saying that if so, it's hard to say 'they should be professional' in the sense that might have in a school where there were clearer lines. Our school is warm and friendly but I wouldn't expect chat or even necessarily acknowledgement in the yard from teachers as they're being professional mainly by doing their jobs not by being sociable.

Yes it is a village school. In a small town you can't avoid people so you have to try to get along with everyone even when it is awkward. That's why I would have expected them to keep the fact that I moved my child out of their class, and the fact that their other children are friends with my other children, separate, but clearly that's not going to happen. Obviously in a larger community it wouldn't be an issue. Head's wife does supply at the school and as I mentioned before I have been very involved in one way or another with the school what with volunteering and fundraising and whatnot. I'd like to say i will keep my distance in future but my SISTER works at ds1's next school so god help me then if anything goes wrong!!!!

I wonder if actually they're distancing themselves because they fear you'd want to moan about the school, and they don't want to be in any possibility of being in a conversation where they either have to agree negative things about the school or contradict you.

I know I've occasionally had situations where a friend has removed a child from something I'm/my children are still involved in and they've wanted me to agree with them and validate their decision. As I haven't been happy to do this, and I don't want to spend my time with someone who is saying things I don't agree with, I tend to pull back from them.

I don't think YABU (well, with the exception of using the term dickheads to describe the teachers).

It sounds like their ego is more important to them than the wellbeing of one of the children in their care. It also sounds like they were failing to notice that he wasn't doing as well as he could.

You did the right thing. They can take it as a personal slight if they choose, you can't change that.

All lines seem very blurred here, and I think that could be your problem rather than that the teachers "sulking" at you.

Surely most teachers, like anyone in any other professional, like to keep their professional and private lives separate as far as possible. My parents were both teachers in different schools in our local area and tried where possible to do this. It was keeping things professional as far as possible, not sulking!!

The fact that your children and theirs have been friendly makes this a little awkward for now, and my guess is that this is why one of the teachers sent her DH to collect. I don't think that was unreasonable at all. It would have been what my parents would have done, and nobody batted an eyelid.

Did you actually say to the class teacher that you were moving your DS to another school because he was unhappy in her class (thereby perhaps personalising it a bit too much) and then expect her to be all "jolly hockey sticks" over coffee and playdates afterwards? Can you not see that that would be very awkward for her?

You are obviously entitled to move your DS to another school if you feel it best. You have done that, and none of it was anybody's fault. Leave it at that. You can't influence it any further.

They can take it as a personal slight if they choose, you can't change that.

It is a personal slight though, how else ate they going to take it, in reality? Assuming, of course, that you accept they're human beings with egos and feelings like everyone else?

Topseyt The thing is that as I have said, it is a small town and much harder to draw those lines. To give you some examples, four of the teachers have children in the school. Several of the teachers are teaching the children of people they themselves went to school with. There just isn't a massively diverse social circle, and if the teachers DIDN'T socialise with parents, they probably would find it hard to socialise at all! (I don't think she was unreasonable for sending her dh to collect by the way - that was just an example to show why I felt she was avoiding me.)

I do get that, OP. Sometimes it is unavoidable, just saying why it may sometimes make things a little awkward, and why the teacher may prefer her DH to do many pick-ups and drop-offs at playdates because he is probably that bit further removed from the situation.

The towns where my parents taught were neighbouring ones. Neither were villages, but still a lot of people knew each other. They were just about big enough though that teachers rarely ended up having to associate with their pupils and parents outside of school.

I live in a large village, and my children all went to its primary school. Everyone knows everyone here too, though the majority of the teachers seem to live in other surrounding villages rather than in ours, so the problem occurred less than it otherwise might have.

abbieanders, it's not a personal slight. Op is doing the right thing for her child, for whom that particular class isn't working. Op has clearly stated that 'ongoing behaviour problems' were the issue. So that's an issue with fellow pupils. I am sure the teachers were dealing with the problems as effectively as they could, and were delivering education. But that environment, with that combination of children, wasn't right for her child.

And even if it was an issue with the teachers - that still isn't worth the teachers getting hung up about. Do they expect every child to get on with every teacher and their teaching methods? That's a huge stretch. And an impossibility.

In my line of work I deal one-to-one with people. It's the kind of environment that, while I can tailor what I do to the individual, it is still done in a certain way - and some people find that someone that has trained with a different organisation with a different approach works better for them. Should I take that personally? I don't. Different people thrive with different ways of doing things. That's ok and normal.

If the teachers CHOOSE to take it personally that is their choice.

They are being unprofessional.
You moved your child because the mix of children in that particular class wasn't good for your son (all teachers will know that this happens with some classes by pure chance).
It wasn't a slight on their teaching, but if they choose to interpret it in that way then there's nothing really that you can do.

They are being petty and rude.

I had a slightly similar situation in that ds2 was assigned to one class for reception year (in nursery there was one large group, from reception onwards there are two standard size classes per year) and I requested he went into the other due to the people he was actually friends with and wanting to avoid a child who had spent the whole of nursery year bullying him. My request was accepted, all was well- except the member of staff who would have been his teacher had I not requested the change clearly was very unhappy with me and after that would not speak to me at all, even when I made direct eye contact and said "good morning". That was two and a half years ago and she's only just started to grudgingly half acknowledge me when I'm around. It just makes me glad she was never his teacher if she's such a childish, petty, rude person, tbh. And I make a fucking point of giving her a big shit eating grin and saying "hello!" very cheerily indeed whenever I see her :)

We made a similar decision to yours OP last year. Our DS was unhappy at his school no matter what we did, or the school did to be honest. We felt an accumulation of incidents was putting too much on him and he was crying about even GOING to school.

We eventually moved, and the school supported the move. We moved him and his younger sister. Older 2 DD's we left at the school until the end of summer term. As one was moving on to high school, and the other was achieving well and didn't want to move mid term.

The teacher understood well why we were moving, and knew that it was mainly a clash of very strong personalities within the boys of her class.
She wished us and DS well, gave him a gift, wrote him a beautiful poem in a card, and really made the transition so nice for him.

We still saw her at events at the school due to older DD's being there, and between his old class teacher, and the other teachers they always were pleasant and asked after him and were genuinely delighted to hear he had settled well in his new school.

I think they're being petty. Surely as teachers, they love kids. And want the best for every child. If the best for DC2 is being in another school, then they should support your choice as his parent.

I think that most people would be wary about not being close to someone who had made a professional complaint about them (or close to it). Doesn't sound like they've been rude or unprofessional, they're just distancing themselves. It's inappropriate for you to try to maintain a friendship in te circumstances.

Op hasn't raised a complaint about the teachers has she?

From the op: I was really careful not to criticise them as teachers to the head

I don't see anything suggesting she has complained about the teachers.

I think OP was unrealistic in her expectations. I wouldn't have expected the play dates to continue.

You took your child out of these two teachers' class and moved him to a different school. Of course they are taking that personally. I would say they feel in the center of the situation, wouldn't you? Put yourself in their shoes. They feel very uneasy around you now. No matter what you said to them, it is the action of you taking your child out of their particular class and moving him to a different school, leaving your other children in their classes with their teachers, of course these two teachers feel very weird. You couldn't even bear your son staying in their classroom for the rest of the year, how do you think they feel?

You may have had very good reason to remove him, perhaps you can give us more context.

They are probably wondering why in the world you want to keep a personal relationship with them, with their children and yours, when you absolutely do not want them teaching your child. Yet you want your child to be around them outside of school? They are probably struggling to understand and have quite a bit of resentment/confusion toward you. Just giving you their perspective.

I'd say that realistically you can't expect your relationship with the two teachers not to change when you've taken your child out of their class and moved him to a new school, but they should still acknowledge and speak to you and DS2 - I agree that would be more professional, and kind, of them - especially to your DS
Hoping their DC may come for a play-date at yours is possibly hoping for too much
Friendships can come and go for lots of reasons, especially amongst children, and I think it's only realistic to let these ones slide a bit