formula

[Emma2506]

Ok so I don't want to turn this into a whole ff vs bf war but I find it highly offensive to ff mums who can't collect advantage points/clubcard points, shops aren't allowed to have any offers on etc for formula. I understand it's the LAW but why is it acceptable to have deals on alcohol yet ff mums are penalised for choosing to ff or not being able physically able to bf? I know the excuse is shops promote breast feeding but I'm struggling to get my head around why a bf mum would buy formula just because it's on offer if she is doing well bf and it's FREE!

I've never seen any study which has disproven the benefits of breastfeeding Cat, and I've done fairly extensive research in this area. Could you link me?

These benefits are not disputed. At the end of the day, breastmilk is milk produced for a baby, in its natural form. Formula is a poor substitute for breastmilk. Breastmilk is packed full of things that formula companies can never replicate. It is not manufactured in a factory. It's food processing at its finest. We all know that natural food, home cooked, etc is far better for us than processed food. It's the same thing here.

*The midwives I met during my pregnancy were militant about BF and gave me terrible advice. They were very keen to tell women they must BF but not so good at telling women how to.

There must be a reason why 81% of babies in the uk are BF at birth and only 17% were still BF at three months.*

Yes, 1000 times yes. My experience: the let down pain, the constant feeding (every hour for 45 minutes) and the state of my nipples meant that something wasn't right. Asked a MW who had a look and said DC had a 'perfect latch'

I literally would be crying and gripping onto the sofa in pain with the let down but she said there was nothing to be done about it. That isn't really helpful.

In the end, I used my common sense. When you look at a room full of children at any age, you cannot tell the difference between them. The FF or BF children aren't the runts of the litter, they're all bouncing off the walls like each other. That's enough anecdotal evidence for me that if there are BF benefits, they're not enough to go through that for 45 minutes of each hour of the day. In reality, the benefits are so minimal that you'd never know.

In babyhood, FF allowed my baby to be content for 3-4 hours between feeds and sleep. The difference was huge. We could leave the house.

If asked, the advice I give to friends who want to BF is that they need to accept that they will be stuck to the sofa for a couple of months and to have no expectations to get anything done.

OhShutUpThomas

www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0277953614000549

Diddly that happened to me too, and that's how I feel about it

It does get easier with bf, I really sympathise with the constant feeding, but it does settle down after a while.

The pain on let down must have been awful though, I never had that.

Cats

Outcomes include BMI/obesity, asthma, hyperactivity, attachment, compliance, academic achievement and competence

^^this is what that study was looking at. A tiny part of breastfeeding benefits, and much of which is behavioural. Which, if you are studying sibling sets - there isn't likely to be a huge difference.
They are also largely relying on parents to provide data, who are unlikely to want to prove that they have 'failed' one of their children in any way.

In short, this is an extremely flawed study, based on objective evidence. Do you really think that parents will report back that they have a much better bond with their breastfed child? No.

Another quote from the study -

Results from standard multiple regression models suggest that children aged 4 to 14 who were breast- as opposed to bottle-fed did significantly better on 10 of the 11 outcomes studied

Indicates that breastfeeding is best, apart from when looking at largely behavioural differences in sibling sets.

This is why you must be careful when reading and citing studies found online.

Diddly some women do get very painful let down. There's not a lot that anyone can do, but it is rare and doesn't usually last very long as breastfeeding is established.

And yes, you do need to feed a lot, but it's not for very long and they go longer all the time, apart from in growth spurts

Can I just say. Can people who come on stating the benefits of breastfeeding spare a thought? I am not disputing the benefits, but a bit of sensitivity wouldn't go a miss. Most women I know who've stopped bf did so because of pain.

My experience was the same with both boys, it all started off fantastically, loved it, bf my dc was one of the nicest things I've experienced in the world. I was discharged from hospital with 'perfect latch', but by day 3 my nipples were getting worse by the second.

Babies feeding every hour for up to an hour so no respite, the skin has started coming off my nipples. Called the midwife out for support and she couldn't see any problem with the latch, was advised to express and syringe but could barely manage to do it with crying baby, me shaking, tired and feverish from engorged boobs.

With my first I have him a bottle for a break, when I tried to get him to latch back on he wouldn't, so I expressed until my milk dried up, he also started taking a dislike to the bm.

With my second I got him latched back on, but within another couple of days the pain was back, it wasn't just initial pain it was searing arse clenching agony through the entire feed. No midwife could see any problem with the latch. I was getting virtually no time with my older child, the baby seemed constantly distressed, I just gave up in the end and expressed again until my milk dried up. Tried nipple shields and just ended up with a distressed baby and nipples that just felt like they were being bitten underneath plastic.

It was actually all a lot worse than that with unwanted visitors who stayed for hours.

I actually feel really sad that I didn't bf, not just because of the health benefits but because I loved it when it didn't hurt, and because I hate having to buy formula and make bottles when I had the perfect milk myself. In hindsight is probably do lots of things differently but I have the benefit of the experience.

There's no disputing the health benefits and the bonding of bf, but formula is ok and there are lots of ways you can care for your children's health and wellbeing. Purely on a anecdotal point I know lots of bf children who get fed shite food, who get ill lots, people who were bf who are fat and vice versa. Loads of things we do in life are important bf is one but I see little point in worrying women who've already ff their dc for whatever reason.

Efforts would be far better put into supporting someone who actually wants to bf in the future.

I also had a lot of trouble with pain and a undiagnosed tongue tie. I received no support in hospital.

When I did give up BF I got sent on a guilt trip by a midwife. She even suggested BF would have reduced the 90% risk of breast cancer I have due to a genetic mutation.

I fully imagine it does get easier but sometimes you can't see past what's going on at the time.

Nobody really ever says oh it will get easier, I just though I can't go on like this for 6 months.

Pyjama
I'm sorry you feel that way. However, if someone is disputing or disclaiming the benefits of breastfeeding, then it's really not unreasonable to list them in a factual way, nor is it an attack on anyone who has formula fed.

I suspect my dc had tongue tie but I'd never even heard of tongue tie.

I think families need to arms themselves with information if they plan on bf. I just thought it's natural and it would come naturally. How wrong I was.

These threads always go the same way it's such a sensitive topic.

OhShutUpThomas I don't think you can discount it because it's parents reporting. You're effectively accusing them of lying, which is a dangerous path

As a question does anyone know why on earth bf bought on feeling like I was going to vomit? I had HG and vomit when on my period so could it be hormonal? I've never heard anyone else mention it before

I felt like I was going to vomit from the pain meow. It was pain where even wearing a loose tshirt touching my nipples hurt.

Not accusing them of 'lying' as such Cats, but a parent's evidence is always going to be biased, whether consciously or not.

diddy it is no more right for you to tell people BF means being tied to the sofa than it would be for me to tell people that BF is easy peasy, pain free and you will be feeding once every 4 hours within weeks.

Neither of our experiences are representative, and only giving one side of the story is selling people short on being able to make an informed decision.

Very true Ice. Mine both slept 3-4 hour stretches from birth, and were breastfed. We did have days where I was literally stuck to them for hours on end, but these were growth spurts and didn't last forever.

Pyjama yeah mine was like that.

I would have liked to bf if I were one of those people for who bf was a nice experience. But as it stands, I didn't want to because it was so uncomfortable! On occasion it was a nice thing but that was rare far more often it was painful

days where I was literally stuck to them for hours on end, but these were growth spurts to be fair, the first couple of months are mainly growth spurts!!

I think if you're prepared for the worst anything over and above that is a bonus. So if your baby is on a growth spurt and you don't get anything done, that is what you expect. If they're a bit less hungry on another day and you get to go for a stroll, winner.

Like I say, I would only offer this up if asked and I only BF for 6 weeks so can't exactly be giving out much advice!

When I did give up BF I got sent on a guilt trip by a midwife. She even suggested BF would have reduced the 90% risk of breast cancer I have due to a genetic mutation

Time and place for advice and all that, but she is right, the evidence does seem to suggest a risk reduction even for those types of cancers. PRobably not what anyone wants to hear though, and pretty pointless if the decision is already made!

Tiddly the specific genetic mutation I have there is absolutely no evidence that breastfeeding lowers the risk. The midwife was ill informed and yes you're right even if she was correct I don't think it was the right time. 3 days after giving birth is a sensitive time for everyone.

This is simple government policy. There is a proven link between breastfeeding and lower hospitalisation rates in babies. This should really be common knowledge.

www.unicef.org.uk/BabyFriendly/News-and-Research/Research/Gastro-intestinal-illness/Breastfeeding-reduces-infant-hospitalisation/

Why should the government not implement policy that reduces NHS costs? To make mothers who have failed to bf for whatever reason feel better? Yes because that makes sense!! If you have genuinely tried your best to establish bf but it has not ultimately worked then I can't understand why you feel guilt? There are bigger things in life to worry about. But yes it should be obvious that introducing factory produced modified cows milk to a newborn gut is going to have some statistical health implications.