to think it's irresponsible and reckless to accept large numbers of migrants when

[wonderingminds]

All over the country lots of factories are closing down and there is a serious shortage of housing.

And where does the finance come from to build all of the houses that are now so desperately needed for those that need them (whether UK nationals or those hoping to come here)? Exactly where is this bottomless pit of money you seem to think we're hoarding for other, more nefarious, purposes? If factories and jobs are closing down, with nothing to replace them, basic economics state that, at some point, we cannot do any more.

I do think that we are 'over sold' and that The state of things in the uk is being idealised to desperate people who need something better than they have. But I also think we (in the uk) are lucky, and why do we deserve healthcare or housing over others just because of where we were born? Why do we need to 'look after are own' first?

Yanbu, it isn't sustainable. The area of London I'm from has completely transformed in the last decade and now English first language children are the minority in local schools. I walk around and comment on how everyone is speaking other languages, often I'm the only mum speaking English in the playground etc.

I can't see how the level of immigration can continue unless we cover the country in concrete and build endless new roads and skyscrapers to house the world.

Our

Ohforgods you have nicely ignored the point that immigrants contribute more than they take.

Curlywurly I'm dubious about your anecdote. Do you have anything to substantiate it?

widow it's not a lie. I bet wherever you live in the country, local housing rules have being homeless top of the housing list. So if you're already paying high private rent on breadline income, you're already lower criteria than anyone homeless, and that includes many migrants. And if your private ll knows full well 8 adults will be desperate enough to move in, it keeps rental prices higher. You're only hope is ending up homeless to get accommodation, and that's not straightforward. And even if you are homeless, migration puts a whole load more in that category with you. Homeless policy rarely pays any attention to your social needs or community, it's heres a 1/2/3 bed, who's top of the list for one. So while I'm aware nobody is sat thinking 'fuck it, boot them out 30 miles and give this one to the migrant' in practice it can result in that. I didn't say it was the only reason for the housing crisis either. But neither am I going to ignore the fact it really isn't helping, either homes or social cohesion. Actual asylum seekers should of course be helped.

well it will never help social cohesion if immigrants keep getting blamed for the experiences of the poor

Why dubious widow?
**
Would you not move countries under the same circs? This kind if situation is hugely common in various forms in the NHS.

widowwadman migration from within the EU has indeed been fiscally beneficial to the UK. But the current question is not just about EU migrants is it? Many incumbent migrants are from Ethiopia, Afghanistan and many other Middle Eastern & African countries. Please refer me to your evidence of the positive fiscal impact of non EU migration to within the EU

Do those who speak other languages deliberately not speak English to you to exclude you Allthetrees? It's pretty normal for a parent to speak their native tongue to their bilingual child exclusively as a means to get the child to actually learn and maintain that language. As long as they translate for non-speakers of their native language and address them in a common language then surely an increased diversity is a great thing?

I love that my kids have children with different languages in their circle of friends - they quite like teaching each other little bits and pieces (including their monolingual English friends)

Of course we are over committed and over whelmed. It doesn't take a genius to work that one out.

Im not going to get into this ridiculous argument but let me give you a for instance.

I know someone that came over from latvia, she trained in the NHS, the minute that was up she went private. She has given nothing back.

I have many more cases but can't be arsed.

Oh good, another migrant bashing thread. Haven't seen one of those in, ooh, about 2 hours?

curly -as someone who actually has moved countries, I know it's something which isn't that easily undertaken.

Idea that people move away from their communities and families and friends and thus their immediate support to access benefits, council house etc seems odd. Also doesn't fit in with the findings (I posted links earlier) that by and large EU migrants come to work, are fit and healthy and don't access much costly NHS care.

So it seems anecdotal. Anecdotes like that are often trotted out by certain tabloids, that's why I'm dubious.

We have a hell of a lot fewer migrants in this country than the proportion of residents who have emigrated to other countries.

The migrant population pay more in taxes than they take in benefits.

Goady nonsense.

Immigrants themselves, even if they claim themselves to be daily mail stereotypes, should never be blamed for the experiences of the poor. An immigration policy that results in the poor sucking up most of the flack should be entirely to blame.

Well then shut the fuck up about migrants.

Wow what an intelligent response.
how old are you

rose - so your example is someone who is in paid employment, paying taxes and NI? How very dare she?

widowwadman tell me what, in your perfect world, would you do? Would you do as Ms Merkel has done and offer an open door policy to one and all? And how would you fund that, whilst keeping in mind that the current population of your country also has urgent needs that have to be fulfilled.

I think put simply, there are ways that migration hugely benefits the economy and ways it doesn't, and most of the ways it benefits the economy benefit those who are middle class up.p

Those who are on a lower income may be more dubious.

Have'nt read the studies on immigrants contributing more than they take but is the effect of money they earn being taken out of the UK economy accounted for. Money that would have been put back into the economy here is being used to prop up the house building industry in Poland and Romania.

I am married to an immigrant and it is usual for his countrymen/women that they spend as little as possible here and send the majority of it back 'home' to build their mini mansions. I have seen the same thing in Indian and African families.

Surely that will have an impact over time on the flow of money into the economy.

Immigration has also pushed up the price of renting property which many people have no choice but to do what with the price of buying, where is the benefit in that for anyone?

Also can anyone actually answer the question of what 'multi-culturalism' has done for this country, apart from create communities that don't wish to integrate with each other, or learn the language and who would really rather live in their own countries tbh (but without poverty and in safety) where they can practise their own cultures and religions withoug having to explain them to anyone.

I agree that wrt refugees, funding should be given at source and they should stay in neighbouring countries. I would much rather see aid being given there than here. I see no benefit in dragging people halfway around the world to an unfamiliar place far from family when they don't really want to be here, they just want to be safe.

evening all
Never a bad time to link to the guidelines
Thanks ever so

can anyone provide actual evidence that the poor suffer most? It gets trotted out repeatedly but I am still unsure if it's based on any facts

as a DIRECT result of immigration - not as a result of cuts to LA budgets, schools funding, SEND funding, Welfare funding etc but ONLY because of immigration

Stuck, our country is built on multi-culturalism, since before the Romans.

What is fucking the country is the very rich, who are getting richer, not spending any more money. Whereas, if the general populus has more money (and secure jobs) they will spend more which will aid our economic recovery. Immigration has very little to do with anything.

And I say all of this as a person on a very shitty income whose partner has been forced to accept a 3 day week in his previously fulltime job.

Youthecat you're wrong there. ONS March 2015: nett immigration to UK 636000 (up by 84000). Nett emigration 307000 (down by 9000). Look it up.

Yeah how dare she exactly. Get something then give something back I say Widow. She was paid to be trained, the minute the training was up she was gone. Like lots. Hence the government stopping this in such a flat line way unfortunately that will have a huge detrimental effect on anything ever being homegrown again. More total Imports are nigh. Awful. Im so glad Im my age now and don't have much longer to witness such shit.