to think it's irresponsible and reckless to accept large numbers of migrants when

[wonderingminds]

All over the country lots of factories are closing down and there is a serious shortage of housing.

I moved 200 miles for my job and lived in a bed sit - do I win? Social Housing being under strain is not really an immigration issue - but at least immigrants ARE prepared to move hundreds of miles for a job and live in shit conditions - so maybe they get a say?

I think you will find lack of investment in the public sector and in poor areas by central government - via cuts to LA's has had more impact than immigration - I'd expect somebody working for a LA to know that

I work for social services in one of the most economically deprived areas of the UK - I do know a little about poverty

Ghosty, the thread isn't about you. Good grief.

Can we not have a general discussion without one persons life history!

WidowWadman - no I don't have an issue. I was trying to respond to the idea that some British people should just stop having children, which seemed like a sweeping statement.

thankthoseluckystars if you want to talk about how people not born in the UK and their offspring are a burden, than you'll have to expect that people not born in the UK and their offspring think that you're talking about them. Because you do. You don't get to choose which immigrants you mean and which you don't with your handwriting about how we're stealing jobs, benefits, housing etc.

If anyone who rants against immigration says " but I don't mean you" that's only to make themselves feel better at being confronted with their own prejudice. Just because you think you don't mean them it doesn't mean that any anti-migration rhetoric policy doesn't affect them. It does.

I wouldn't ever say I don't mean you. I am concerned about the level of immigration at the moment and manatee has articulated it more clearly than I could, so I'm not going to paraphrase her posts, but threads become diverted when one person responds to general political and economic points with personal anecdotes. It's selfish and it's tedious!

Okay sorry to have ruffled your feathers!

I'll leave you to it - although, for the purpose of debate, when people are saying 'only middle class people support immigration' or 'only poor people know the effects' I think it is relevant for those people countering the argument to draw on personal experience - that's how discussion works

but since you are so bothered - and since these threads are so dull and samey now - I'll bow out

you are exceptionally rude :)

mind you - you only seem to be responding with personal insults - I think you may have a little crush going on

Ah yes, it's selfish and tedious if the targets of your comments actually speak up. Because it gets in the way of the foreigner scapegoating echo chamber.

That isn't what was said though, was it?

It is rude to persistently divert interesting things people want to discuss by endlessly talking about yourself, which is certainly blunter than I like to be but unfortunately it is true.

That isn't what was said though, was it?

It is rude to persistently divert interesting things people want to discuss by endlessly talking about yourself, which is certainly blunter than I like to be but unfortunately it is true.

Had I actually passed comment or made anyone a target Widow, your comments might be more relevant.

so Thank If I accused you being a 'typical Dail Mail reader with no real experience of immigration or immigrants' you would not be allowed to counter that with facts from your own experience?

I think it's great you find me so diverting though - makes me feel special

I am afraid all of my opinions have formed through life experience - I will try harder to be more clinical

ghosty that's great. How would you feel moving to a 4th floor 1 bed with 2 kids, working flexible rotas on zero hours and no family and friends within a 2 hr bus journey? In that situation would you be quite so happy about the social housing in the area you privately rented in prior to job loss/ dv/ ill health being awarded to recent economic migrants? Because you see, I wouldn't be exactly in favour in that position. And because I can actually empathise with the people I work with, they don't tend to think 'alright for you, overpaid twat'. Which isn't directed at you btw, but I've heard that opinion expressed frequently about any official that has tried to convince them of 'our' ( read you, not me vulnerable person ) to support migration. I tend to focus more on blaming the policy, not the migrants who are just as blameless. Not convincing people to willingly struggle because I'm ok either way.

thank erm, I hate to break it to you, but immigrants are actually real people. If the "interesting thing you wish to discuss" is blaming these real people for the effects of policies they had nothing to do with, then it's not rude of them to actually say something.

I can't answer you Lurked - sorry I have been instructed NOT to talk about myself

lurked - how about stopping repeating that same old tired lie of social housing being given to "economic" migrants ahead of indigenous population?

diverting?? It's interesting to see this argument used across threads that involve attitudes towards immigration.
Ghosty please don't stop posting.

Ghosty I can see you are quite determined to make the thread about you personally rather than discuss the issue in general.

Countering facts with your own experience is fine. However, when talking about such big an issue as immigration it's impossible to talk about one person and to base opinions, facts and possibilities on that one.

To put it another way, if I terminated a pregnancy which I was to subsequently regret, mentioning this in threads about termination would be totally appropriate. Insisting termination was wrong, repeatedly, in all circumstances, because of my personal experiences would be closing down the discussion.

Anyway, I genuinely apologise for offending you and I was sharp, but I was rather enjoying reading the intelligent and well thought out responses and it is frustrating when they turn into a discussion of one woman's mighty struggle, when that was not the original topic of the thread! I think saying that's a personal attack is over the top myself, but I apologise if you interpreted my post in this way.

I just wished I could understand half of them when going about my business in England. Im crapping myself about getting sick and having to go into hospital. Was visiting my sister the other day and I asked her if an interpreter was possible

widowwadman everyone has a right to voice their concerns about the causal effects of immigration to the EU. It is a perfectly reasonable subject to discuss and think about, in fact, not to give serious thought to such an important matter would be ridiculous. Of course immigration creates a degree of financial burden, the question is how much of a financial burden and for how long, can any country support that. That does not make the questioner prejudiced or racist and to suggest that, just closes down all intelligent discussion. I don't think that anyone who has posted on this thread has, to my knowledge, suggested that ALL immigration should be stopped or that immigrants already here should be treated any differentlying to anyone else. You seem to have taken offence where none was intended.

but I would say 'recent economic migrants' don't get priority social housing - they wait on the list like everyone else and have to meet the same criteria - no one is entitled to housing be they British or EU - sadly social housing stocks have been depleted through right to buy and poor maintenance

It's shit for anyone to be stuck in poor accommodation but it's not due to immigration as immigrants are treated the same and everyone else on the list - it's just more people on the list and fewer houses - due to lack of investment and right to buy

Thank you Twisted

ohforgods it's been shown again and again that migration from within the EU creates a net benefit to the UK. Not a financial burden.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/nov/05/eu-migrants-uk-gains-20bn-ucl-study

www.migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/briefings/fiscal-impact-immigration-uk

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24813467

www.ucl.ac.uk/news/news-articles/1114/051114-economic-impact-EU-immigration

So if you want to discuss the financial impact of migration, you surely need to acknowledge it's positive?

'discussion about one woman's mighty struggle' hyperbole much

god you love me

I work in the NHS in a very deprived area. I have lots of families that have moved from EU countries (Portugal etc) in order to access better healthcare for their DC's with special needs.

I have been told by several families they were advised by their paediatricians in their home countries to come to the UK for this reason.

These families work in low paid jobs, cleaners, house keepers (both at home and UK) but life is better in the UK as healthcare is 'free', housing is provided, there's supported schooling, they can claim benefits etc. These families are banded higher priority for housing due to their more significant social needs.

I don't think this is sustainable. The services in my area are completely overwhelmed.