to think it's irresponsible and reckless to accept large numbers of migrants when

[wonderingminds]

All over the country lots of factories are closing down and there is a serious shortage of housing.

So you joined Mumsnet, a parenting forum, to post this?

YANBU! It's absolutely nuts. We have a huge, huge housing crisis with homes to both buy and rent completely unaffordable. The government is not building any new homes and trying to sell off social housing so that the tiny bit of housing that was affordable soon won't be. And importing hundreds of thousands more people (many from cultures that are completely alien to ours) is just the height of insanity. The government seems determined to make life for anyone who was not born rich extremely difficult and unpleasant. We are not progressing, we are rapidly going backwards in terms of quality of life.

So you joined Mumsnet, a parenting forum, to post this? hmm

You don't have to be a parent to be on Mumsnet.
Mumsnet appeals to a very broad spectrum.
Most people usually know this.

I'm not really sure what you mean, you statement is very goady

Even old Angela Merkel is beginning to realize sadly too late how utterly ridiculous and reckless her Open Invite was.

It's frightening to think that the future stability of a country can rest on ONE person.

I have no problem at all with us accepting, housing, clothing and feeding migrants fleeing war but there is no way ecanomic migrants should be elegible for social housing, or other benefits.

Has anyone blamed Jeremy Corbyn yet?

Yes I also agree.

Surely it is better to help Syria get back on its feet, rather than move the whole population?

Also, it is much cheaper to build refugee housing in Lebnom, than in the uk.

Love that you think I'm goady

Yup it is FAR more irresponsible to keep churning out kids than to accept migrants...for one thing the birth rate massively exceeds the migration rate. So maybe people in south wales should stop popping out kids unless they can conjure up jobs for them?

No?

Well then shut the fuck up about migrants.

I am getting so fed up of this class line being marched out in every immigration debate - I grew up in Liverpool - lived in Toxteth, Mover to Birmingham - I am used to diverse neighbourhoods - I was a poor child of a lone parent

Stop pretending it's only middle class (by which you mean left wing) people who support immigration

and stop insulting the working class by insinuating they are all anti immigration and right wing!

it's such a lazy argument

In my view the only way to make it politically acceptable to do our bit with refugees is to end the open door EU migration policy, and take control back over who comes to the UK. Which means voting Leave in the referendum. At the moment we have this mad (and IMO pretty racist) situation where if you're a (majority white Christian) EU citizen you're welcome no questions asked, but if you're from elsewhere in the world the barriers are insanely high. We should have the same policy regardless of country of origin.

I see you point Huge - but if we leave the EU all those Brits in EU countries no longer have the right to live and work there - so theoretically that's 2 million people needing work and homes!

I do agree that the EU policy can be seen as pretty racists - except sadly white Polish/Estonian/Latvian etc people are also subject to racial abuse - and not welcome - I think some people only want white, English speaking, 'people like us' allowed in - hence the obsession with Canada and Australia

Ghosty - if that's aimed at me - can you point out where I said the working class are all anything?

Observing that immigration is not in the class interests of the WC is not at all the same as saying the WC are all, as individual people, hostile to immigration. Just that it's rational for WC people to feel that way.

To take an analogy, strip clubs are not in the class interests of women but plenty of women are indifferent to or even supportive of them.

Over 26% of births in the UK are to mothers not born in the UK, probably because economic migrants are of child bearing age. Source ONS.

Of course we should take them, and far more than the British government is proposing. We are one of the richest nations and none of us are suffering like they are.

As always the anti-migration people don't say anything about UK migrants to other countries in or outside the UK. I'm a German born naturalised UK citizen who benefitted from the right to free movement which allowed me to settle and build my life here. Stopping the right to free movement would take away that right from my own children. Why would I want to restrict them like that.

Stopping migration won't do anything to help the steelworkers whose factories have been closed, nor will it do anything for the frankly ridiculous British housing market.

Immigrants are scapegoated for policy failures they haven't caused and they can't have any impact on. It really grates.

X posted. Re the Brit expats overseas, it's not realistic that they'd all just be abruptly 'sent home', any more than away migrants living here would be kicked out. For one thing, sending all the Brita home would cause a catastrophic property price collapse in some already depressed bits of France, Spain etc. Kicking all the Poles out would be similarly disruptive in parts of the U.K. Not going to happen. The most likely scenario would be a transitional period in which expats could apply for more permanent residency under new post-Brexit terms. It's just not realistic that they'd all be rounded up and shipped home. That's not how European politics works.

Wales has net migration of 6000 a year and 34,000 births. The pressure is definitely more from kids than refugees.

Andy are you just have an issue with the mother's place of birth, or does the father matter too? Many of these children born to mother's not born in the UK have British fathers. Your idea that the number of births by mothers not born in the UK gives any insight on why they're in the UK is wrong.

I know Huge - that's why I didn't say that!

But they would lose their automatic right to work - as somebody who lived and worked in Germany under the old system it's a lot harder to find work and get a green card - No doubt some system would come into play BUT then why would people demand a change if it wouldn't actually change anything? Surely people want the Polish workers 'sent home' as they are 'stealing' all our jobs?

Either the migration by EU workers is bad or it isn't

ghosty I was brought up very middle class. I speak rp. I have a professional job etc. Which often involves working with people below the breadline. I'm also a lp in a working class area, who's local community is mainly council houses with the usual unemployment issues. I still agree with the class theory, just because we're exceptions to the rule doesn't disprove it.

I think unless anyone is willing to live in a hostel with their kids, before moving miles away from all support and too far to keep their job, or live in a grotty overpriced rental that leaves them £100 to keep themselves and their kids on for the foreseeable future, they don't have any right to make suggestions as to how people should feel about the strain on cheap housing migration causes. Unless someone also lives in a household where the ability to eat comes from being offered enough shifts that fit in with childcare etc they shouldn't comment on how we need cheap migrant labour.

Perhaps people would be more supportive of immigration if it wasn't always the case that those with least to give end up being the ones expected to go without to provide.

we need to take more because other countries in europe are already bursting at the seams. Poor Malta and various greek islands which are the first port of call are bearing the brunt of this, and the rest of europe turns away

I was born to a father not born in the UK - bite me

I agree with you OP. I too cannot see how any country can continue to accept migration, at the current levels, when those people desperately require housing (which is in very short supply); education for themselves & their children (when there is already a dire shortage of school places already) & healthcare (when our NHS is already crumbling under existing pressure). It's grand to say that we have a moral obligation to take these desperate people in. But we have the same moral obligations to the people who are already here and also require a roof over their heads; employment; education and healthcare. Perhaps those who strongly advocate unlimitless imigration, no matter what the cost, could come up with a grand plan as to how to finance it because it will take many years before the majority of migrants will be contributors to our economy. Who bears the load in the meantime?