In thinking that i cannot ignore my brother calling my 4yr old ds a prick?

[AfroPuffs]

Will try to be brief but I've been a combination of livid, tearful, disappointed, hurt for hours now and i cannot get to sleep!

So usual sunday dinner at parents, my brother is very early twenties and usually lovely!

My 4yr old ds is also lovely but can get over-excited, get a bit OTT and on occasion is spirited, stubborn argumentative. Usual 4yr old stuff which is usually managed by removal of toys/tablet/activity etc.

My ds and my bro have a good relationship and there is a lot of banter between them i suppose...play-fighting, tickling, calling each other funny/silly names in jest.

This happened today as normal, but when me and ds were getting into brothers car to get a ride home, my brother very suddenly took offence to being called a silly name. My ds had a little bag of sweeties that his gran had given to him and in anger my brother snatched it away and was winding ds up, who was crying about his sweeties at this point.

My ds was screaming and crying and i tried to just get him in the car/calm him down. I also told my brother then to stop because its winding him up etc. As ds went to get in the car he shoved my brother and my brother then yanked off ds' woolly hat from behind and called him a prick.

G'parents had come out to the drive by this point and my mum just got my brother inside, while he yelled about my parenting skills and called me a cunt. My mum closed the front door and so i just left with ds.

My mum texted me later to check if we got home ok and said 'i dont know why you didnt let me give you a lift home". I replied that i was trying to get my ds as far away as poss from the bully! She hasnt responded and i suppose will take my brothers side as usual.

Am i wrong to be upset about this? They seem to be ignoring the whole thing and im just so upset. How can you call 4yr old a prick?! I get that my ds can get a bit carried away...but if the banter is fine with you at 2pm, then why be offended at 7pm?!

YANBU at all. A 4 year old does not deserve that treatment from a grown adult ever.

I can't offer any advice over and above what wise posters have given already. But I can offer you a hand hold and say you're not alone.

My sister was very verbally horrific about my then 3 week old DC1 when ever she could speak to me without witnesses. Unfortunately for her, having my DC1 meant I grew a backbone and told her where to go. She has nothing to do with DC1 and has only fleetingly seen DC2 in passing. My parents accept this, but despite this being behaviour my sister has displayed before and to them and has also done similar things since, they won't accept she ever did this. She again is the younger sibling with the nasty temper who is insanely jealous of losing her status as the baby of the family. Whilst its caused damage to my relationships with DPs (precisely what sister wanted) I don't regret stopping her having anything to do with my DCs until she can act appropriately. Had I given in to my DPs wish to just let her get away with it again, my DC would have had this behaviour all their lives.

The ILs are similar too. DCs are boisterous kids that don't take much to wind up. But they're not overly naughty compared to their peers, in fact I'd say they were quite good kids. ILs spend a lot of time flinging them about and winding them up, then spend days complaining about how awful their behaviour is. Ummmm, don't wind them up then like we constantly ask you not to. Needless to say we have started a more one on one limited time contact strategy and are only going to attend family gatherings when there's so many family the opportunity to have them wound up is few and far between. We've done this because on the whole, ILs are not bad people and can actually be very good to the DCs.

Hope that at least remotely comforts you

my bro was 23 not long ago livijg with me for work rent free didnt feel right asking for anyything. He used to do playfights teasing with my son too who was 7 at the time. Went on 3 yrs. hed say things like what your bro said op and worse. Id take it up with him tthen heds be moody for days. Honestly i was more mature when i was 12 coz i was forced to grow up young.hes been a spolit pampered child youngest too. I reckon he wont mature until hes married and has responsibilities.

my bro never saud a bad word to me though hed have to grovel if he called ime a cunt or something worse.

He needs to apologise and mean it dont let him near u and your child till he does.

I dont think your child is naughty just being a kid your bro isnt patient, ppl without kids have zero tolerance for them unless theyre angels all the time

4 year old kids don't need winding up or play fighting in this way.

My df used to wind mine up and then switch it off and expect them to be calm and placid. Drove me crazy.

Hate adults who do this. Adults should he calm, relaxed and gentle around kids.

Op had your brother been drinking? Not an excuse but something to consider.

I would stop the Sunday lunches. 2 till 7 is far too long for a kid to be 'having banter'

Your brother should most definatly apologise and going forward, if there is a forward, spend Less time with him until your ds is older.

Horrible thing to happen op and no wonder you are upset.

Your little boy acted totally normally for a 4 year old. Your 'D'B on the other hand has serious anger issues and I would not let him anywhere near a child. What if he'd had that aggressive outburst while you weren't in the room? I wouldn't even consider being in contact until he not only apologized but explained that behaviour. And if he chooses to be stubborn let him be stubborn and sister/nephew-less. I don't see how you can compromise on this one, as you can't guarantee your 4 year olds safety around him.

Think the no contact thing a tad extreme just yet, considering you said he's usually nice?

Looks like your brother was in the wrong mood and over-reacted and stepped way way over the line. This behaviour is extremely out of order.

I would expect a full apology and for this to never EVER happen again around your ds. However if he isn't big enough to apologise, and this is not uncommon behaviour for him, then I would definitely keep him away from my child if it were me.

Shocked at your parents for siding with him!

As for your mum, well. There are more effective and less cruel methods of discipline than smacking however the older generations will always view you as soft or unable to discipline because you don't do that. It's how they were raised and they won't really change ime so you just have to let it roll off your back and ignore them. I get sick of hearing 'a good slap never hurt me' from a certain family member, well it did and it didn't turn you into an outstanding human being, so...?

I hope lessons can be learned by your brother over this and that it was just a huge mistake on his part. If not well you did the right thing and dealt with the situation like a civilised human. You sound like a good mum op.

If this is out of character for your brother, is there something else going on?

Have you asked your mum if his behaviour has changed recently?

I wonder if he is taking something/has taken something. You do see that kind of sudden aggressive behaviour in people who have taken illegal substances the day/evening before and it is wearing off.

I have seen this in people who are otherwise usually polite, so I just wondered.

Either way I would not be letting your child around your brother again. completely unacceptable way to behave towards a child.

Agree with the OPs who said it's totally natural for a 4 yr. old to be 'silly' . And I want to congratulate you a lot for not listening to yr parents who think smacking is fine. You sound like a very good mum to me.

I speak as an ex CM|nanny and EY teacher.

Your brother is like a lot of stupid 20 yr olds ( I heard that boys don't really grow up till they're 37!!!!!) he won't think those words are terrible, funny double standards on here; a lot of MNers think that c word is fine. I don't, but he's just being a bad tempered silly idiot I wouldn't take it personally IIWM.

A nice person doesn't call a four year old a prick and snatch their hat off, he also doesn't call his sister a cunt, especially within earshot of the four year old.

I think the OP was minimizing when she said he was nice. She did say he'd 'improved' recently, so I suspect he's been a knob longer than he's been nice. Nevertheless, aggressive outbursts towards a four year old shouldn't just be brushed off as if they didn't happen, and as the OP says, her DB is stubborn and probably won't apologize (another not very nice trait.)

YANBU, OP. I agree with you that shouldn't let your brother near your DS until he has apologised and agreed not to such language in future.

I remember the other thread as well. Seriously, what is wrong with this men in their twenties?! Could it be related to the fact that in both these cases the sisters are single mothers and so they think they'll get away by treating them so badly?! I hope not.

Your brother should not get to have a relationship with his nephew (or you) if he can't treat him properly. And I think your parents have a lot to answer for.

Your brother is like a lot of stupid 20 yr olds ( I heard that boys don't really grow up till they're 37!

if that's true, with some men, it's because they are enabled, their behaviour is minimized and explained away, particularly by female relatives, and everyone has to make allowances for the hormonal 20 something. Perhaps some men continue to act like that until their mid 30s because they want to get married and settle down, and it finally dawns on them that not all women respond well to spoilt and entitled toddler-men.

My brother called me a cunt and a retard multiple times. I went NC with him and haven't seen or spoken to him for months.

Thanks everyone. Feeling a bit better now after reading all the comments. I do think that youre right about brother being enabled, whenever he loses his rag my parents mollycoddle and he never has to own the mistake on his part. Its the first time he's been nasty to ds, perhaps he had a lovers tiff with his girlfriend on the phone (which is the usual cause of him becoming grumpy), but whatever happened there is no excuse. He is usually very pleasant in the main. Its not drugs or anything as he is very much into fitness and doesnt drink either.

Im not going to contact him at all and if my mum calls i will make it clear at the start of any conversation that me and my ds will NOT be accepting any of the "blame" over this. I am going to stick up for my ds completely. He was in absolute tears about someone who he looks up to....cant believe he let ds down in this way.

If you don't make a stand now, this will only get worse as your DS gets older.

""My brother is stubborn so doubt he is going to say sorry to me.""

Your Brother is an Adult (as opposed to a teen) and any Adult should apologise for swearing in front of a child, don't let your Mum minimise or excuse that.

Your DS sounds as though he needs handling in a certain way (I've had two of these) and if anything you teach them to calm themselves down, partially by mirroring good behaviour, you don't go to far with games, pick the games carefully and praise etc good behaviour.

It's a missed opportunity for your Brother, he could be a wonderful influence, if he wasn't a Prick of the highest order.

He is teaching your DS that you don't stop when the other person is getting upset and that using aggression/swearing is acceptable.

You need distance and make boundaries clear. If this won't be respected, then distancing yourself, for the sake of your DS is the only way.

Good on you, OP. Also, what CozyLinus said, in spades.

Though - to return to generalisations for a minute - I do see in a significant minority of men, and not just younger men, or men without children, a tendency to froth a small child up into a pitch of massive overexcitement while playing with them, and then have no idea how to gentle the child down, once that playtime is over, leading to hysteria/tantrums and sometimes annoyance on the adult's part that the child doesn't understand he is now doing something important/is tired. Even childfree women, in my experience, don't do this to the same extent, perhaps because they approach play slightly differently in the main?

That doesn't in the least excuse the OP's brother's behaviour, though.

Your brother sounds incredibly immature - apart from the language, it doesn't sound as if there was a whole lot of difference between him and the 4 year old. Goodness knows why anyone with half a brain would take offence at a bit of silly namecalling by a 4 year old. Indeed I've known young teenagers playing with much younger children who perfectly understand that if they get over-excited they will say and do silly things. Perhaps you could suggest to your mother that until he grows up a bit and learns that he doesn't have to compete with a 4 year old, he really won't be doing himself any favours.

It really sounds like the relationship between your DB and your DS has lost it's way/got a bit out of hand.

Are the Sunday lunches weekly? If so, can you cut it down a bit (at least for a while) so they don't spend so much time together? Your DB is an adult and needs to act like that in his role as an uncle. A little bit of banter is fine, as it the occasional play fight or tickling session, but not on a regular basis. It will excite and wind up your Ds, who will then expect that kind of interaction with him all the time. Does your DS take toys and things to do with him when you go to your parents? Would your DB sit and read books with him, or do some colouring? Can you save a lego model for them to build together? That way you might calm them BOTH down. I think they both need to re-learn how to spend time together, and until they do, the time needs to be restricted, so that there aren't unrealistic expectations on either of them. Can you just drop in for a cup of tea instead of the full on Sunday lunch?

BTW, the way he spoke to you and your is completely unacceptable, and if he talks to you in that way again I think you need to do more thatn just restrict your time with him.

"No doubt mum will call me tomorrow and somehow i will be made out as the bad guy and asked to apologise/make amends."
Then your mother will be in the wrong alongside your brother. And an enabler of your brother's shitty behaviour. Do NOT apologise. Be a broken record, keep pointing out 'he called DS a prick and me a cunt, he needs to apologise'.

"My mum texted me later to check if we got home ok and said 'i dont know why you didnt let me give you a lift home". I replied that i was trying to get my ds as far away as poss from the bully! She hasnt responded and i suppose will take my brothers side as usual."
I would have gone totally apeshit at that! Err, because you closed the front door on me, leaving me standing on the drive alone? Because there is no way your behaviour indicated you were going to give me a lift? Because you made it clear AGAIN that you will always side with my brother over me, regardless of what he has done? Would you care to explain your obvious preference to me, mum?

Actually, it might be worth pointing out to her that her obvious preference has been noted, on account of it being so damnedly blatant. Put her on the back foot. She doesn't get to minimise his behaviour either.

Brothers calling their own sisters cunts. And then not apologising. And the dads/mums not giving their sons a bollocking.

How can a father tolerate his daughter being called a cunt by his son?

Is your brother entirely normal? This is not normal behaviour for a grounded, reasonable adult.
Your DS is 4 yo ffs.
Unacceptable language to shout at him. Poor love.
Your brother is the prick, sorry to say.

I'd tell my DS that his uncle wasn't feeling well and didn't mean to be so unpleasant.

I agree with the other posters who have said that your DS is perhaps irritating to be around sometimes. Aren't many 4YOs.

Tell your DB that you and your DS are hurt by his language and you don't want him ever using language like that in front of your DB again. Tell him to tell you if your DS is being annoying and say you'll deal with it before it gets to boiling point. I hope he apologises. A confrontation might make things worse though. This was awful but you want to prevent a rift in your family if possible.

Could your mother be a narcissist, who likes to control the communication between her children, your dad her enabler and your brother the chosen golden child?

Your physically chastised brother thinks it's OK to use the words cunt and prick in front of a 4yo?

Yeah, that worked then

Only I'm so sorry, poor you and your DS. It's entirely normal for little ones to act silly in that way and your brothers behaviour was appalling.

It's awful, really awful, that your parents didn't stand up for you both as well. What a pathetic, spineless pair they are.

How are you feeling today?

i just think maybe everyone was tired etc, you have said yourself that DS can be naughty unruly, maybe they had had enough all day going onwith the teasing...
yes agreed he shouldnt have called him a prick ... Maybe your bro forgot himself at who he was talking too... Realised it wasnt one of his mates.

Yes he called you the C word but i suspect that was after a few other words had been said Quote: " My dad pretty much said/did nothing and went back inside as soon as he realised there was an argument happening"

Just call your brother explain that you thought things got a bit heated and maybe taken out of context, you really dont need your mum getting involved by ringing you tomo etc

I am a nan to a 6 yr old and a 2 yr old from my DD
i have a 20 yr old DS
he often asks if they are coming round as the 6 yr " does his head in"

he does tease them also and vice versa .... however you do need to know the stop switch , when your DS and my grandkids are getting a bit much.

i am not saying he was right and are you 100% sure that nothing was said to provoke him calling you the C word ?

i think he thought " over reaction on calling DS a prick" got a bit heated and responded with calling you a C ....

Forget about your rude brother, and focus on your rude child because at least with your child there is something you can do to set him right

Totally disagree, funny how we can all see things differently. Totally normal in my family, its affectionate name calling, which is why OP has had such a shock, since theres never been a problem with her brother before.