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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Aibu to be devastated after committing an unintentional crime.

152 replies

devastatedcriminal999 · 15/01/2016 23:01

I had a really long week with dc's winter vomiting bug. stuck in the house all week the 1st ds 10months to start vomiting Monday was better now and also bored and frustrated. DH working long hours all week. It was my winter week off work.
DH arrived in from work and said why don't you and youngest ds take time out. We wrapped up warm and went for a walk we live in a very built up area. I decided to get myself a new top and live almost opposite the shopping centre. I said id pop over quickly treat myself to a top or two. I had no makeup on but was still dressed well not sure if that its even relevant
I went into Debenhams had a trail through their sale rails to see if there was any late bargains. I picked up various tops in my size and sale stuff was organised in sizes. I went through them decided on 3 nothing special. I went to the till paid for my items and left.
I went into the shop next door and was buying some vests for dc's. When I went to get my handbag I seen there was one tops still on hanger unpaid for on the handle of the buggy. I paid for the vests and returned to Debenhams immediately. I was at least 50 feet into the shop and I stopped to look for a member of staff to explain. A plain clothes security guard approached me pulled the top from the buggy, it was not hidden the top was in clear view I was afraid to touch it until I got to the shop. I said I am really sorry I left this top on the back of the buggy. He insisted I head to the back offices with him. I tried to protest then he said that he was entitled to use reasonable force if i did not return to discuss the matter. (I know I did leave the shop without paying for the item it was a total misunderstanding. When we got to the back office he had a huge security guard there. I was really upset, Ds 10months was really upset. He said he would have to call the guards (Ireland) I had to wait two hours even though I pleaded that I had sick DC at home, I work full time I have never stolen anything in my life etc. He kept saying that is what they all say. I showed him I had money I had cards I did not need to steal, He was so rude and saying yes tell it to the guards insisting I seen him following me and that is why I returned the top, I had only been in a shop 2 doors down and then returned to the store. Finally the guards came. The security guard said I.
I explained what happened. I had even said to the girl in the vests shop and dear I took that by mistake from Debenhams what shall I do. She said just bring it back. In hindsight I should have asked her to call security. (at also explained this at the start to the security).
The Garda turned up watched the cctv, checked my details for any criminal record and the female gard said we can see from the cctv it was unintentional.
Then the male guard said we are issuing you with a caution as you passed the till with an item, I said I did not know I had the item on me.He was very rude and said I can except the caution or get arrested. I just excepted it I was completely defeated and just wanted to get home, 10mins shopping trip turned into 3hours of hell It has really shook me.

OP posts:
SapphireSeptember · 15/01/2016 23:42

Agree with complaining about it, I once returned a bottle of nail polish to Poundland that had fallen into my bag. They could have called the police, but they didn't, the person I gave it to was just glad I gave it back. You made a mistake, and went willingly to return the item, you could have not bothered and not had all this hassle!

Iliveinalighthousewiththeghost · 15/01/2016 23:43

The big man had to protect his ego somehow you know

YY.

LegoRuinedMyFinances · 15/01/2016 23:44

You should have got legal advice and you shouldn't have accepted the caution - the elements of the offence weren't made out and it sounds like even the officer admitted that.

However it's done now, don't beat yourself up over it, but if there is ever a next time please don't just go with the 'advice' from the police - get a solicitor.

MsAdorabelleDearheartVonLipwig · 15/01/2016 23:44

No, she said the Garda said it was obviously unintentional, then the guard said they were issuing a caution for passing the till.

Please take this further. Please email the manager of the store and inform them that you will be taking this further unless you recover an apology from the guard. He wasn't doing his job and he overreacted. If the police were satisfied, he certainly should have been. What exactly have you been cautioned against? Shoplifting? You weren't shoplifting in the first place! What an odious little jobsworth. Sorry you're so upset. Flowers

leghoul · 15/01/2016 23:46

no way that you should be issued with a caution for that - that's very bad (of them) you were completely honest.
cautions show up on enhanced CRBs - they are not benign entities in England anyway

Herrerarerra · 15/01/2016 23:46

That's really horrible, sorry to read that you've been made to feel like this. Please take the time to complain, you shouldn't have been punished for being honest.

FlowersCakeWine

Original poster
devastatedcriminal999 · 15/01/2016 23:47

I know the security guards were only doing their job. It is totally lesson learnt from hooking items on the back of my buggy. I do feel I should complain too, The large security was a complete gent but the store detective was horrible to me. After the female Guard (police woman) assessed the CCTV she said she could tell it was unintentional as my son was crying while I was queuing at the till. I took the tops from the buggy then my bag, one top drop down the handle.
I just feel very shocked at upset over it. Its like it had happened but cannot get over how I ended up in the situation. I even showed them my points card to see im a regular shopper in the store.

OP posts:
TheFormidableMrsC · 15/01/2016 23:48

Hang on, unless I have misunderstood this, are you saying the Guarda issued you with a caution in a shop? Where you were seen on CCTV returning a forgotten item to a store having paid for all the others? Sorry, I'd be seeking legal advice without a doubt. My understanding is that a police caution is issued at the station and is a formal procedure.

Sounds utterly awful OP, but you really need to do something about this. Flowers

Iliveinalighthousewiththeghost · 15/01/2016 23:48

Had you been a 6ft tall tower of a man. I'm sure the jobsworth wanker would have turned a blind eye

Blu · 15/01/2016 23:50

A caution is a criminal record! Did they make you sign anything?

It doesn't sound legal to me: how can they do you for theft when you had come back into the shop with the top?

If it was the Garda and they made you sign a caution did they explain what a caution is? And what your rights are ? You can refuse a caution and then they have to charge you and prove you are guilty in a court. Which is highly unlikely as you had come back into the shop and even one of the Garda said it looked unintentional.

As I say accepting a caution is a criminal record. I would seek legal advice ASAP .

JamesetjeeBomanjee · 15/01/2016 23:50

It's a mistake that anyone could make but unfortunately the security guys have no way of knowing if you are telling the truth or not. The actual thieves use the exact same type of line. I think you just have to accept what happened with the knowledge that you know you didn't mean to do it. I wouldn't complain. Don't be mad at the guards be mad at hop lifters who ruin things for everyone else.

Hanging cloths on prams or giving things to little kids is a very common thing for thieves t do.

It's the same as the time I got done speeding. I never intentionally speed and try to drive carefully all the time and the once time I was doing 34 Blush leaving our town I got done. It's just one of those things.

bunique · 15/01/2016 23:52

I have heard the advice given before to never accept a caution... You need some legal advice.

NeedsAsockamnesty · 15/01/2016 23:53

Op who gave you a caution?

NeedsAsockamnesty · 15/01/2016 23:54

james

Yes they do have a way. Theves keep stuff or attempt to, they do not return it, if they do the item has not been stolen.

Original poster
devastatedcriminal999 · 15/01/2016 23:56

I know the security gards were doing their job, but the store detective was so rude, and I had returned to the store. No I did not sign anything. I am not sure how the law works I was going to contact citizens advise. I said to the female gard (police woman) I swear I did not take the top, she said I can see from the CCTV it was unintentional. The male gard was really grumpy he came from the security office and said we are issuing you with a caution as you did leave the shop \ pass the till without paying I started to protest although id explained what happened twice he then said or you come to the station I just said I just want to go home. he wrote in his notepad and I left minutes later I was in tears.

OP posts:
TheFormidableMrsC · 15/01/2016 23:58

James, you do NOT just chalk up an "caution" given in a shop to experience. I would scream from the fucking rooftops. It's something that can affect all aspects of your life. I am still reading this as the security guard issued the "caution" as I do not believe the police would do that in a shop...it's completely against procedure..and as another poster said you can refuse it and you must be offered the chance of legal advice. OP, do that rooftop screaming thing, please....!

littledrummergirl · 15/01/2016 23:59

I would complain. If you had intended to keep the item you would not have returned to the store.
Contact the police to get their report and email the store head office. I think that store security have handled this very badly and need retraining at the very least.

TheFormidableMrsC · 16/01/2016 00:00

OP, can you just clarify this :

The shop security guard issued you with a "caution"? If that's the case, please contact the store and ask them what that means...you're barred for example.

Please confirm the Guarda DID NOT issue you with a caution in the shop having viewed the CCTV and said it was unintentional?

The difference between those two scenarios are HUGE...

Original poster
devastatedcriminal999 · 16/01/2016 00:02

Male guard (police man) There were 3 members of garda siochana there

OP posts:
Original poster
devastatedcriminal999 · 16/01/2016 00:04

Yes it was the male guard he was really rude, the other 2 were fine all police officers. sorry I was unclear. I did not get barred from the store even

OP posts:
nancy75 · 16/01/2016 00:05

Op can you clarify, was the person that gave the caution shop security or police?

decisionsdecisions123 · 16/01/2016 00:07

I was in Boots once and browsing things with my children, somehow I managed to put a random item into my bag ( I think it was a mini can of Lynx spray or something!) without even realising. Luckily I decided to open my bag before I walked away form the aisle and was so shocked and embarrassed to see the can in my bag and couldn't for the life of me figure out how I managed to get it in there. All I could think of was what would have happened if someone had been watching me and thought I was trying to just take it!

I have also been in the supermarket using the basket under the pushchair to put things in as the supermarket basked gets too tricky to hold when heavy with a pushchair. I was at the till lining my stuff up to pay and hadn't yet taken the milk out from under the pushchair when a guard came up and asked me if I was planning to actually pay for the milk! Embarrassing as it made me feel guilty the way he said it rather than just pointing out in a nice way that I had forgotten to take the milk out.

I imagine these things happen to a lot of us.

Original poster
devastatedcriminal999 · 16/01/2016 00:07

it was the police. One of the 3 police. He was totally on the stores side. the other two were kind to me.

OP posts:
Original poster
devastatedcriminal999 · 16/01/2016 00:10

I think with the week that was in it also. I will be making sure I do a complete buggy search every time I go out. With the intention of never using it to hold items again Blush

OP posts:
goddessofsmallthings · 16/01/2016 00:14

Please don't regard this as a 'lesson learned' as you did nothing wrong.

It's clear from your account that you had no intent whatsoever to steal, but if the police (Gardai) have given you a caution this is a serious matter as having a criminal record can adversely impact on jobs you may apply for and may prevent you travelling with ease to certain countries.

When it comes to the preservation of cctv tapes that can prove innocence or guilt, time is of the essence. Is it possible for your dh to go to the store in the morning and ask that the tape be preserved as you will be appealing your caution and making a complaint about the overbearing manner in which you were treated by the store's security guard/detective? I would suggest that he puts this in writing to hand to the store manager after speaking to him/her as this may serve to emphasise the seriousness of the matter and the necessity of the need to preserve the tape.

I would also suggest that you go to the shop next door to make contact with the member of staff who served you and with whom you had a conversation when you when you went to pay for items and noticed the top had fallen down your buggy. Ask her if she recalls the conversation she had with you and ask if she's willing to give you her name so that your solicitor can write to her if necessary. You do don't need to tell her you've been given a caution and can simply say that you were badly treated by a particularly overbearing security guard and intend to complain to the store.

I'm so sorry you were subjected to this traumatic ordeal but PLEASE, I'm begging you, DON'T chalk this up to experience as it could come back to bite you on the bum bigtime at some future date.

You've had an horrendous shock so be kind to yourself over the weekend and don't hesitate to go to your GP if you experience difficulty sleeping or find that you're having flashbacks of what took place and how you felt last night.

NO-ONE should accept a caution without legal advice and you, you dear sweet innocent soul, are no exception.