To think no-one should be able to over-rule a dead person's wishes on organ donation?

[angelos02]

I was disgusted on seeing the news that 547 people that had wanted to be organ donors were unable to do so because family members over-ruled their wishes. The patient's wishes could have improved the life of over 1200 people.

How is this allowed to happen? I can't possibly imagine the grief that these people were going through but you can't deny another human being's wishes?

But their families may decide to donate but they deliberately didn't sign up because they didn't want to.

Is anyone who would overrule their relative's decision willing to say if they would or wouldn't accept an organ donation for their child or themselves?

Grape but if people specifically do not want to donate, then they can say so on the register and their families won't even be asked.

I didn't know that

It is better for families now, the specialist nurses who explain the process and support families are very compassionate and knowledgeable. I might have made a different decision had it happened today and I had had some support from such a team.
I would still accept an organ for me or my children. But at the time, my personal grief was such that I couldn't make an emotionless decision. It wouldn't have helped me at all if it had happened anyway despite my family and I saying no. I was 23 and I was about to lose my mum. I don't feel bad and my mum would not be annoyed with me. Knowledge and support is an amazing thing and that's what people need.

I think that training specialist nurses to change families minds is allowing these nurses to exercise an authority they do not have. Although I agree that if someone has agreed to donate organs, then this should be respected, but it is a family's prerogative to overrule this if they see fit. A nurse or hospital does not own a dead body, and they have no right to manipulate grieving relatives with their specialist training.

ShirleyBassy The first comment was very harsh. Your second is spot on though.
If the decision had been out of my hands, maybe it would have been easier
I think a lot of things can be solved by educating. Campaigns to encourage people to talk to NOK are brilliant. If I'd have known DPs wishes it may have been easier to make that decision.
As it is, I don't regret saying no. It wasnt a kneejerk reaction. There was logic there.

I seem to be the only poster on this thread who is actually alive because some unknown family gave me the gift of their child/partner/spouses' liver.I think of that family all the time, I cannot conceive the immensity of the gift they have given, and I thank them every day, more so than the actual donor in a way.
I live in Spain where despite lingering Catholicism, the opt out system works well, and families' still have the final word. But the culture is one of altruistic donation for the most part. As some small thanks I have left my body to science, and thank gooodness I have no relatives to say otherwise.

YABU

When I'm dead, I don't really have any rights. It's up to my next of kin to decide and I'm happy with that.

My dh is all for organ donation, but should I die first and in his grief he decides he doesn't want my organs donated then I'm glad he will have that right.

It is much easier to say 'yes I'll donate' than it is to say 'yes I'll hang around for the next however many hours or days while you artificially keep my child's or husbands body alive before you take what you want from it'.

This exactly, and this shows perfectly why I want it to be up to my loved ones. They know my wishes and I hope they honour them but if it's too much for them then ultimately I want them to do what is best for them.

It is very easy to say what you will do until you are faced with it. Would I keep my husband/child artificially alive for however much time they need? I don't know. I would like to think I would do it but reality is much different isn't it? I imagine at that point I just want my loved one to go in peace and that may override everything else in a time where I am not thinking straight. Your posts Osolea are fantastic.

Donating organs is a gift, a fantastic gift. But it is just that, a gift. Not something people should feel guilty about if they refuse to donate their loved ones organs.

To those that say they don't understand why someone wouldn't donate either their own or their loved ones organs, go back and read Buscakes post and open your mind a little bit.

Understanding a bit more why someone doesn't want to donate would be nice, but it doesn't actually matter whether it's understood or not. It does need to be accepted, respected, and not judged negatively though.

It's lovely that in the worst of times people can get some comfort from doing something that carries out a wish of their loved one, or from knowing that their organs have helped someone else, but people are different, will experience grief very differently, and especially will react very differently in those fist hours after being told their loved one has died. That's just people, and choosing not to donate is perfectly valid. The fact that people get comfort from donating their loved ones organs proves that it isn't entirely altruistic, and while it's a wonderful thing when it does provide comfort, if it doesn't then it shouldn't happen.

In response to the point about how there's not much talk on the thread about the recipients of donated organs, with all respect, it's not about them until after a potential donor has died. I mean properly died, as in both body and brain. Until then, it has to be about the potential donor and their family and what's best for them. It would be horrific, and bordering on barbaric if families were to have no say at all in the decision.

Fwiw, as far as I can say without actually being in the situation, I'd be fine with not accepting an organ as I don't want to donate.

Wheredoall - I didn't say it was a reason not to bother. I said that there is ignorance about the realities. Organ donation gets a fantastic press but it's not a 100% good news story. There are some stats from the USA here

UK kidney info here

There's plenty more info out there. I think you did a wonderful thing in making that donation and you're right to encourage others but it shouldn't be done without an honest understanding of the reality. I apologise if my post has upset you however.

Honestly - I think people who override a relative's wish to donate are selfish and irrational.

Think the govement need to bite the bullet on this one opt out the only there needs to be Diffrent rules for children who have passed

Why different rules for children?

I live in Wales , where you are opted in to donate your organs , unless you choose to opt out
I don't mind if they cut me up after I'm dead ( I'll be dead , so I won't know )
However , if anyone thinks they're carving up my husband or children , they've got another think coming , as that is not going to happen

Honestly - I think people who override a relative's wish to donate are selfish and irrational.

Well, a person in shock and grief are likely to be irrational, yes. Selfish? Probably, but understandably so.

And no to opt out only. My body does not belong to the government. I would much rather my husband have the rights to my organs than the state.

Like I said, organ donation is a gift. No one should feel bad for not wanting to give that gift or be labelled selfish. It stops becoming a gift when you expect everyone to do it if they are able to.

Also, I have no problem with the thought of my organs going to someone who isn't on the register themselves. Just because you would take the gift of organ donation yourself doesn't mean you should have to donate yourself.

I am all for organ donation but I hate how it has become something that people now see as a moral failing if you don't want to take part.

But isn't that their decision, Doi?

Or do NOK still have the final word?

Can we please not use words like carving up?

It's offensive and maybe hurtful to those who have donated their loved ones organs. There is no need for that language.

If the worst happened and I lost my husband or child it would of course be devastating. Would I do everything in my power to prevent someone else experiencing that loss? Of course I would. I just really can't imagine the pain experienced by the people and families on the waiting list, not knowing if they will get an organ in time.

Indeed, Nerr. And the 'carving up' comment - you do know they're dead and can't feel it...?

You don't know you would for sure. You can guess, while sitting in the comfort of your home not having to make that decision to keep your loved one artificially alive.

I always thought it would be easy, and while I've never had to make the choice when my ex died I just wanted him to be at peace. I know he was dead and if he was able to donate his organs he wouldn't have known a thing, but I wanted his body to be left alone. I can totally understand why some people who have watched their loved one suffer just wants their body to be left alone when they have gone and the thought of them having to go through another procedure might be too much for them. It might be irrational, but grief does that to you.

All the people saying "if it was me" how do you know?
It's unimaginable being told they are gone. I'm one of the most level headed people I know and I was a wailing, bawling heap of snot and tears. Try making a decision about it when you are like that.
It's somewhat challenging.

They don't know.

They can only guess, unless they have been there already.

So easy to know what you will do before you face it isn't it?

Two of my children have died. I was able to donate the organs of one of them.

Please can we not call it 'carving up' it is offensive and upsetting.

I was glad I was able to make that decision, I'm glad it was my choice.

I'm really unsure how I would have felt had he been older and it wasn't my choice anymore.

As it was I was able to make a lot of requests, the doctors treated me and my son with total respect and kindness.

I really struggle with the thought of being in that position and then being forced into a situation you can't handle.

Or what if someone is up for organ donation then changes their mind, or the system fucks up, or any number of other things.

Organ donation is a great thing, and it is always the choice I would make, but having been in the position of donating my sons organs I would feel really uncomfortable forcing a family member into having that happen against their wishes at an already fraught time.

I'm really on the fence with this one.

Yabu I'm afraid. I'm on the donor register and have been for years. Dh isn't as he doesn't want to be. That's fine, it's his body.

I have told him that if I die I'd like to be donated but that ultimately the decision lies with him. He's the one that's got to live with it. I'd hope he would do what I wanted but agree with his right to over rule my wishes.