To think no-one should be able to over-rule a dead person's wishes on organ donation?

[angelos02]

I was disgusted on seeing the news that 547 people that had wanted to be organ donors were unable to do so because family members over-ruled their wishes. The patient's wishes could have improved the life of over 1200 people.

How is this allowed to happen? I can't possibly imagine the grief that these people were going through but you can't deny another human being's wishes?

I can't help thinking we are missing something here, what better legacy could someone have than that even in death they were thinking of the life of another, an unknown person, or people, whose very life could depend in that person's generosity with something they cannot use or take with them and which will simply disappear without that person's life to sustain it. Surely what better legacy for the person who died.

To allow loved ones of a person who has died to stop that generous and altruistic act from happening is utterly wrong.

i think my hubbys fear is you are still technically living when you go down for organ removal .yes you are brain dead yes a machine is breathing for you but you are still warm and in his eyes still living .

Perhaps your DH could read up about the science of what actually happens when organs are removed for donation. It helps to remove the emotion from the situation and equips you with the facts.

I agree with Barbara Ellen's comments in today's Observer here that preparation is key.

Perhaps a leaflet explaining the procedure should be posted out to all new applicants to the register for people to give to their NOK.

Better still, should there be the online facility for a message to be written by the applicant to their NOK explaining their decision?

make it clear that they do not have the legal right to override your decision

But the hospital do not have the legal right to enforce the decision......

It would help if that sort of information were readily available on the NHS organ donation website Suburban, but it isn't. Aprilannes DH is right about what happens though, the problem is that lots of people aren't aware that that's what will happen, and that's probably a big reason as to why families don't give consent.

Greyhound, the point you just made is a fair one, but there are plenty of wonderful legacies that people leave behind them that have nothing to do with organ donation. To say 'what better legacy is there' belittles all the amazing, life enhancing, generous things that people have done in their lifetime that actually involved some effort on their part.

I agree with the OP

I have down all the forms, etc. to donate my body to science. DH and the kids are all aware. If it's not suitable for that purpose (there are some restrictions) then they know to offer any organs for donation. This has been openly discussed and questions answered. I doubt they would go again my wishes as they know how strongly I feel about it.

I wonder how many relatives are met with the news without having known in advance? However, I don't believe it's the right of relatives to give permission. That permission has already been given by the deceased and it should be respected by all.

Personally, I would happily accept the opt-out stance.

Well, To say 'what better legacy is there' belittles all the amazing, life enhancing, generous things that people have done in their lifetime that actually involved some effort on their part. I was not meaning to belittle what one does in one's life.

Or what one leaves behind one after a life time of work.

But to me that one can leave something that is of no value to oneself and which will simply disappear in time, and in its place to help many people either to improve their quality if life or to actually save it, that is one of the best legacies one can leave. I asked what better legacy can anyone leave, I doubt very much I would leave anything better behind me. If others feel they have done or will do more with their lives than that, that is of course their knowledge and answers the question... what better... but for me I am not sure I could do better.

It's about over riding a person's expressly stated wishes. You either can or you can't. It doesn't matter whether it's a cornea or a diamond ring.

My late DGM's friend had made it very clear to her family that should it be possible she would like to donate her organs. They only found out later that there was a clause stating that should her wishes not have been carried out (i.e. it was possible to donate but her family did not give consent. As opposed to she was not eligible to be a donor) that the majority of her estate was to be left to charity with smaller amounts left to her children. However, she died suddenly and would not have eligible to be a donor so the problem did not arise. I think it would have been more effective if she had let her family know about the clause, if she were trying to use it to ensure her wishes were adhered to. I think her stance was " I have let my wishes be known and if my family cannot respect those wishes, then I do not want them to benefit from my death".

In some ways I quite like the idea, although recognise it is imperfect and could be seen as vindictive. I also don't know what the legal stance on it is in terms of enforcing it or what would happen if the will was contested.

I would have no issue over-riding a wish by my DC to donate their organs.

I'm not on the register but would donate everything apart from tissue. DH is aware that I want to donate and has said he will respect my wishes.

I do think that, if a person is on the register, it should be binding. I don't really see the point of it otherwise.

"I think her stance was " I have let my wishes be known and if my family cannot respect those wishes, then I do not want them to benefit from my death".

I sort of feel like doing this now. I am quite shocked at how lightly some people take the clearly expressed wishes of their relations.

I doubt anyone takes it lightly Bert, it's more likely to be that they consider it and come to the conclusion that they simply don't have the strength to deal with the process at an already devestating time.

That's why the biggest problem is potential donors not discussing their wishes, and a lack of public information informing people of the process before they have to deal with it.

osolea I agree that I doubt anyone takes it lightly. At 16 I was the only member of my family to know what my mum wished to happen with her ashes (I was the only one who knew that she wanted to be cremated!) I told my dad what mum wanted. To be fair to my dad, he did follow through. Despite the shock at her sudden death, what she wanted was still at the forefront of my mind. I realise that isn't the same for everyone. I judge nobody for that.
This thread has made me feel even more that I wish to god we had found her earlier. Some part of her, any part of her, then could have maybe helped someone else. I feel I failed her.
My oldest dc is 16, he lost his dad at 11 so we have discussed death quite a lot. He knows how I feel, what I want. I so hope he follows through though touch wood he won't be faced with that decision for a very long time
I agree discussion is the key.

Baressentials I am so sorry about your mum.

Re I feel I failed her.please do not feel that way any more, it is in the past. I don't know the full details. Please make your peace with this very sad part of your life.

Rhoda - I am so pleased for you and your Prada glasses . It does bring home to you what an amazing gift organ donation can be.