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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

So.. today the school sent my DS on a trip i didn't give permission for him to go on...

258 replies

Skullyton · 14/01/2016 17:02

My friend was picking my 9yo and 6yo up after school today, and when she got there, DS wasn't there, and they told her he had gone on the school trip.

The School trip i never filled the form out for, so hadn't given consent for him to go on.

It was only a trip to the local college for a panto, but DS has ASD and needs full time 1:1, and plays scare him, so he was quite adamant when the forms for it were sent home that he didn't want to go, so i never returned the permission slip.

One of the office staff this morning asked me in passing if he was going, and i said "No, i never filled out the permission slip"

So to say i'm a little annoyed is an understatement. Yes he was safe, he was with his 1:1, but i did not give consent for him to go, he should not have been off the school premises!

I called the school as soon as i knew and left a message, but that was at 4.15, and no-ones called back.

How do i approach this in the morning?

OP posts:
chillybillybob · 14/01/2016 17:34

I think it was unreasonable that you didn't tell the teacher you didn't want him to go. There isn't just your child in the class, she shouldn't have to chase parents on who is going or not. I assume a letter was sent out regarding the trip ? Surely it is then up to you as she parent to speak to the teacher if you really feel your child wouldn't cope on the trip.

sleeponeday · 14/01/2016 17:35

It was probably a mistake. Why get so angry if their was no malicious intent behind it?

Not very familiar with autism then? Hmm

I'd be really, really upset. I didn't want DS to go to a panto last year, and the school disagreed. They spent a lot of time and energy trying to talk me round, and I ended up giving in. What they did NOT do was ignore my legal right as his parent to determine what I felt was best for him, and override me. They owe an apology, an explanation, and reassurance that this won't happen again. Flowers

Hope there is no delayed reaction tonight.

DamedifYouDo · 14/01/2016 17:36

No need to go crazy but it is a very serious safeguarding issue and either school procedure / policy is not up to scratch or it was not followed. I would be calmly asking the head to explain exactly why he was taken on the trip without your permission and for an assurance that this can never happen again for your child or any other.

Luciferbox · 14/01/2016 17:36

This should not have happened. As a teacher I check the forms before setting off again and again. Lists are made, checked and copies made.

DamsonInDistress · 14/01/2016 17:37

You need to raise a serious complaint and drive it all the way through the whole process. It's a major safeguarding issue that absolutely must be addressed. You don't need to go batshit, you need to go icy calm and steely determined. Good luck!

Original poster
Skullyton · 14/01/2016 17:38

Hermione, no, because it was a trip we had to pay for, and the school consent forms for these trips are a 2 page affair.

I didn't ignore it, they were sent out the week before xmas and i forgot about them

THis is neither here nor there.

Lack of a returned slip is still lack of consent!

OP posts:
hippowithsuncreen · 14/01/2016 17:38

Is it possible that you signed a generic trip agreement on a home school agreement or such. Its just our old head told us they send permissions forms home but only really for info as more parents have signed ok to local short trips on the homeschool agreement.

If not I would be furious.

Youarentkiddingme · 14/01/2016 17:39

The asd is both a huge factor but also a not relevant in this case.

The ASD is a factor because they potentially put the child and others at risk because it was thought he wouldn't cope.

But it's not relevant because NO child should be taken on a trip the school don't have permission to take them on. They ask permission for a reason - they need it!

DamedifYouDo · 14/01/2016 17:41

chillybillybob

The issue is that the school took a pupil without consent, the default position should always be that without consent the pupil does not take part. It's basic safeguarding practice!

sleeponeday · 14/01/2016 17:41

Chillybillybob, schools need a parent's permission slip, duly completed, for this sort of outing. You know, that being the law and all. And this is not "just one of 30 kids". It is a child whose autism is sufficiently serious that he has a one to one teaching assistant. That is not something the state, or schools, merrily hand out like candy. It means they feel he absolutely can't manage without that degree of support. Autism has been described as "anxiety looking for a target" and autistic people can experience sound, colour and movement in a very amplified and heightened form, which can combine to make a theatre or cinema trip horrible, stressful and panic-inducing. This is someone who needs one to one support, and has expressed terror over theatre trips. The school have a binding legal responsibility to make reasonable adjustments for disabled children in their care - one such adjustment would be checking to ensure his parent feels he can cope with extra curricular activities. DS has no need of 1:1, but his school are careful with this stuff because they are supposed to be.

Original poster
Skullyton · 14/01/2016 17:44

No Hippo.

The school send permission/consent forms out for every trip.

When i couldn't immediately pay for DD's panto trip before xmas, the teacher stood in the doorway at home time and checked with every child missing a returned form if their child was going as they needed payment.

DS was in a high stress state the last week of term so i was dealing very closely with the school and the form was forgotten after i asked if he wanted to go and he vehemently told me absolutely NOT.

I had totally forgotten about this trip until the Secretary asked me about it this morning in passing/conversation as she knew the class were going, and i told her he wasn't, and that i had never returned the permission slip, and she had a look on the list and said 'ah yes he's not on here'.

So SHE knew he wasn't going/wasn't on the list.

OP posts:
NewLife4Me · 14/01/2016 17:45

I'd kick up a fuss and report to ofstead tbh, whatever the reason, you didn't want him to go and they should have made provision.

They will have known, no had/wanted to find an alternative and done it for an easy life.

Report.

Waltermittythesequel · 14/01/2016 17:46

I guess the good news is that he handled it well so maybe his fear of the theatre is lessening?

I'm wondering if teacher assumed you forgot and didn't want to leave him out?

Of course it's not ok but shouldn't you have returned the form with an explicit no?

Original poster
Skullyton · 14/01/2016 17:48

Absolutely walter, and we're playing that side of it up with Ds.. i'm really pleased he enjoyed it.

Still doesn't mitigate he shouldn't have gone and its a major safeguarding failure.

What if he hadn't coped?

OP posts:
Waltermittythesequel · 14/01/2016 17:50

Oh, I'm not arguing that point at all!

I'd be saying something tomorrow definitely.

I would speak to the teacher before making any reports though.

hippowithsuncreen · 14/01/2016 17:52

I would be very cross then. I would be making a formal complaint to the head.

OurBlanche · 14/01/2016 17:55

Don't spit when you find out his 1:1 was needed to keep the child:adult ratio right!

But, whatever the explanation you get, ask them to describe, in detail, what they would have done had he gone into a complete fug?

They do need to re-work their trip procedures. If the school secretary had the list, checked and confirmed it with you that morning they have no 'missing paperwork' excuse.

HT should take it very seriously, as would the governers, if you choose to escalate this, all in accordance with their own procedures, easily found in their website, of course Smile

Novus · 14/01/2016 17:59

It's interesting that you thought it would scare him, when in fact he enjoyed it. Maybe the teacher knew what she was doing all along?

SpaceDinosaur · 14/01/2016 18:03

Novus
That is entirely wrong and irrelevant. The teacher does not override a parent's decision about removing an ASD child from a safe and controlled environment because they know better. They are not allowed to do that.

How would you feel of a teacher cut your child a short fringe in because they knew better?

It's the same.

Leelu6 · 14/01/2016 18:04

Is this a thing now? We didn't need permission slips for day trips, unless they cost money.

Is there a contract between the parents and school that prohibits this?

BertrandRussell · 14/01/2016 18:05

"
It's interesting that you thought it would scare him, when in fact he enjoyed it. Maybe the teacher knew what she was doing all along?"

Even if that was true, it's completely irrelevant- the teacher cannot over ride the parents instructions.

zipzap · 14/01/2016 18:05

Do you think there's any chance that the person in the office that you spoke to thought that when you said that you hadn't filled in the permission slip, that you had meant to but hadn't got around to it? So maybe said to the teacher that she'd spoken to you about it and chinese whispers effect meant she said that you'd 'forgotten' to fill in the permission slip that between them they assumed that this meant you wanted him to go...

Whereas obviously to you it was obvious that you hadn't filled out the permission slip because you didn't want him to go.

Even if it was a mix up due to a misunderstanding like this (and I'm making some big leaps here I know! There's a good chance it didn't happen like this) it still doesn't make it right or acceptable. Even if they did think it through like this, the office should still have said to you 'do you want him to go - here, fill out the form now' if it was possible.

I'm also assuming that if you ds has 1:1 care then you are in reasonably close contact with his 1:1 member of staff so they should have discussed it with you at some point along the way and should have known that he didn't want to go.

As a side issue I'd point out that you had arranged for ds to be picked up from school at the normal time and that by taking him on the trip you were caused considerable inconvenience in having to go back to school (or get somebody else to) to pick him up particularly on such a cold miserable winter's night when you'd much rather be curled up indoors. I hope that you managed to sort his pick up out OK - but they weren't to know that, when they took him without permission, that one of the reasons that you hadn't given permission was because you had got something else planned for this evening (pick up arrangements, after school club, doctor's appointment, Cubs, etc etc) that this could really have screwed up. They would be down on you like a ton of bricks if you turned up an hour or two late for pick up!

Definitely need to have strong discussions with them in the morning - not sure that batshit crazy will work too well despite the temptations. Cold and icily effective maybe? And ruthless questioning - how on earth could this have happened? What is going to stop it happening again, what other checks are made when going on a trip (if this had been a trip during the school day you might not have found out), what other things are happening that shouldn't and so on...

miraclebabyplease · 14/01/2016 18:07

How local is local? In our school parents sign a blanket permission when the children join that allows us to take children out without a letter each time if it is in the local area. I had a parent phone recently about this and I did have to point out that by signing that form I did have permission.

However, being late back to school would normally require consent.

DamedifYouDo · 14/01/2016 18:07

Novus

That wasn't the teachers decision to make! Thank God he did enjoy it because the consequences could have been very serious, I take it you don't have a child with ASD?

My son has autism and if a teacher over ruled me like that I would be livid!!!!

ricketytickety · 14/01/2016 18:10

They should have phoned you and asked for verbal permission without a permission slip on the morning of the trip.