To think dss is being unreasonable, or am I?

[DadKeepsCalm1]

So today I finished unusually early from work, I normally finish about 5 to half 5. So as I was coming home from work (drive) I noticed it was almost the end of the school day at dd and ds school. So I decided to pick them up and get a coffee and cake. The school is not much of a detour on the way home. Dss goes to a different school it is very far from ds and dd school.

Dss and my kids normally get a bus home, dss bus was delayed and he got home considerably later.

Dss thinks that I should have come to pick him up, despite this meaning a massive journey in the midst of rush hour. Dss has then called me selfish and inconsiderate. However dss made no effort trying to contact me to explain journey problems, if I would of known of these I would have collected him.

So Aibu or dss ?

I understand why perhaps that happened with the hotel room, however if he already feels a bit of an odd one out then that will have accentuated the feeling.

And that he appeared to be happy, doesn't mean he didn't feel that deep down.
And if he did feel like that then compensating will feel like you're buying him off.

I often felt odd one out in my family. I also often was the one asked to move, be apart, because "you don't really mind". Actually I did, but couldn't see much point on objecting as it would gave happened anyway and I generally didn't like making a fuss.
On the odd occasions I did object, it always caused vast amazement. I didn't really like explaining that I did generally mind.

I think a family activity for all is a good idea for the weekend.

If it was a triple room is it the case your son refused to share with his step-brother and you allowed that?

It was a triple room, single for dd and double for the boys. As it was Xmas I decided it would be better to just get a different room. I don't know why ds did have such an issue of sharing. I probably should not of done that.

I often felt odd one out in my family. I also often was the one asked to move, be apart, because "you don't really mind". Actually I did, but couldn't see much point on objecting as it would gave happened anyway and I generally didn't like making a fuss.*

I think this is true especially with the hotel, if it wasn't Xmas I would have definitely not put up with ds refusing to share.

You need to realise that on this occasion he'd had a bad day and all the little things added together made him feel left out.

You need to realise that it's ok for him to have different opinions and perspectives than you. The things he said really weren't that bad.

Dad I think you made some progress tonight because he actually told you how he was feeling and why - the main thing is that he feels that you think he is an inconvenience. I personally don't think you do btw - the hotel and 'cakegate' yesterday were just one of those things.

That is just how he is feeling about things at the moment, there may be more to it - maybe not. Don't push it any more for now, just be aware of it.

FWIW - if he articulated himself yesterday using the words "selfish" and "inconsiderate" that's pretty good for a teen in the scheme of things. The fact that he actually told you how he was feeling for a male teen is pretty amazing under many circumstances, more so because he told you.

I also made it up for dss buy giving him some extra cash when he went out with friends after Xmas.
That's compensation but it doesn't make up for it. It won't stop him feeling excluded. You can't buy soothed feelings.
It must have been horrible for him when your sons refused to share with him, then the coffee & cake just added to that feeling of being on the outskirts of the family.
He needs to feel like he matters to you, that he really is part of the family and that his siblings don't take priority all the time.

He just wants to know that you love him the same as the others but he can't say that.

Of course he can't, because OP doesn't. Thats normal in the real world. I know on MN we are supposed to pretend that our step children are exactly and precisely the same and as loved and cherished as our own children, but thats not how life actually works. We do tend to love our own children more than other peoples children. Thats normal.

I have been in dss life for 3 years. I do care for him and love him but it is not the same as my own children.

I thought that the extra cash would be a nice thing to make it up for him.

He just wants to know that you love him the same as the others but he can't say that

Who knows what is in anyone's head but I'm not sure that's what it is.

I think Witchend is probably closer to the mark about feeling the odd one out in the family. OP hasn't said very much, if anything, about his step son's mother but if she is onside (or seen as onside) with OP it's 4 against 1.

OP, I'm glad you are taking on board what people are saying.

I think if you normally get along ok and all the kids get fun stuff with whoever (i.e. it's not dss and his mum or you and your kids and never mixed up) then he's just had a crap day and is being a teenager.

Was it a double bed and a single bed in the hotel room? So DSS (16) didn't want to share a double bed with his 17yo step brother? DSS WNBU.

Did you post previously about your family ganging up on your dss because he doesn't hold their extreme views about Israel?

If so, it does sound a bit like he's being made to feel like an outsider.

I have been in dss life for 3 years. I do care for him and love him but it is not the same as my own children.
I thought that the extra cash would be a nice thing to make it up for him.
My heart sank when I read that. I realise you are unlikely to feel the same about your DSS and your own children, but money will never make up for how he feels about being the outsider.
It's like you are paying him instead of valuing him as a person.

Don't use money to try to compensate him for treating him differently, use your actions. Show him that you care and that he matters. You cannot expect him to treat you in the same way as your other children treat you, when you treat him a different way. He is the one on the outside of the family unit - you have to work harder to include him, not just throw money out to him to make him feel better about it.

"He just wants to know that you love him the same as the others but he can't say that."

I think you've got overly focused on punishment, discipline and your DSS learning to toe the line and see your point of view.

I think you've forgotten that he's a teenager, who feels isolated in his own home and family. Whether or not it's true, he feels like that, and needs the adults in his life to help him feel included.

Whatever your motivation or interpretation of Christmas. What happened was that you enabled your son to exclude DSS at Christmas. You say you did it as it was Christmas - a special occasion. But seen from DSS perspective, you showed him that on a special occasion, he was pushed away. On an occasion like Christmas, which is supposed to be about family and togetherness. Sounds pretty upsetting to me.

And giving him some money to make up for pushing him out of his own family. Ouch! His step father excludes him, then pays him to spend more time out of the family unit.

I wonder if your reaction being all about how DSS should behave, instead of empathising with a teenager who is feeling isolated and pushed out, well, this is the way rifts start.

And denting his right to feel that way is giving him the message that others can exclude him and he has to suck it up and not show he's upset.

I don't think he's 'milking' it which you've said a few times about both situations.

I still can't fathom why your son deciding he didn't want to share a room with DSS at Christmas time resulted in you agreeing (& your wife agreeing by default), and telling DSS he must go to a room away from the rest of the family.

Why did you agree that DS was allowed to object/ dislike/ push out DSS? Why didn't you move DS and let DSS stay? Why was DS allowed to behave like this and get his own way, whilst DSS gets the consequences?

You may feel DSS is wrong about his place in the family. But trying to push him into line and deny his feelings will only increase his isolation and upset.

I'd suggest responding to your step sons feelings, rather than focusing on his behaviour in isolation.

Remember he's not fully grown yet. So even if you can remain polite and warm in a situation where you feel you are being excluded and isolated... A teenager probably cannot.

It's good he's telling you how he feels, it shows he thinks you might care.

Good luck.

The reason why dss was moved and not ds was that dd was also in the room. I look back now and think that it was wrong to of paid for another room. It was about 7pm on Xmas eve and you sometimes just want their to be a bit of peace. I can see why this may have made dss feel isolated and left out because of this.

Ds and dss don't always get along so well. This has been a problem and we have had countless verbal fights and a number of physical fights. I do worry that possibly that ds had a motive to exclude dss on Xmas.

It is a worry that dss is being/feeling excluded. But the pick up saga was not me having a motive to exclude dss but I did so unintentionally.

I did post before New Years about a family situation regarding dss being challenged about Israel (dss half Jewish but not practising). But he dealt with that well and it didn't bother him at all. I did have a long conversation about that as I was worried about him feeling embarrassed by it but he's quite up to date with current affairs so knew the debate. I spoke to him and he said that he was fine about what happened.

I think 2016 is the year for family bonding.

Agree with everything miscellaneous said

You are refusing to apologise when it may help to keep the peace. I say choose your battles carefully. Sometimes we say sorry because it's not worth making a huge drama. Selfish and inconsiderate are not the worse things a teen could say and show he is feeling left out, however irrational it seems to us. He maybe can't understand that it wasn't intentional because he felt hurt. You seem very focused on appearing to be in charge and in the right, but he is a kid! I think you may be making him dig his heels in more. Hopefully he'll calm down and it will be sorted. I suppose you need a balance,you want to make him feel included without pandering to every whim and grumble.

Teenagers always perceive unfairness, even when none exists, it's their job.
It is important that you spend time on your own just with your own biological children, as you did today. Equally it is important that your OH spends time on her own with her biological child, your DSS. That is fair, whatever the other children think or say at the time, this should be pointed out and any tantrums should be treated accordingly. It's also important to spend time all together.
IME though it is rare for full step siblings (ie not half-siblings) to really get on well, after all why should they? And 3 years is not long to build bonds, so it is a bit of a minefield, which I'm sure you will negotiate as best you can. Good luck.

I have apologised to dss.

I think the hotel issue would have been hurtful.

I take it you were trying to fit 5 people in 2 rooms. It might have been better done by getting a twin bedded room for your wife and your daughter and a triple bedded room for the 2 boys and you. That has the merit of mixing every one up.

Or if you really couldn't bear to spend one night not in the same room as your wife then you could have booked a solo room for your daughter and have the 2 boys share. As it turned out if the aim was to save money it didn't work as you had to book 3 rooms anyway.

If he is "half Jewish " I assume you mean his father is Jewish but his mother isn't (since being Jewish is determined matrilineally and it would not matter what his father is.) If that is what you mean being Jewish presumably means something to him and he is in a family of 4 who are not Jewish. Obviously you can't become Jewish simply so he doesn't feel left out but it's another 4 to 1 situation.

Sorry x posted. That's good.

Yes his father is Jewish, I don't think he cares much about actually practicing Judaism and it is more of a ethnicity thing.

We could not get two triple rooms.