WIBU to ask…whether you’ve ever left a relationship/DP because they haven’t proposed?

[Chocolateaddict9]

The recent thread in here got me thinking….has anyone left a partner because after a certain amount of time they hadn’t got a marriage proposal? If so, how long did you wait before you finally accepted they probably were never going to marry you?

My own personal circumstances (which I don’t really want to go into but are not that dissimilar to the OP’s in the other thread) has got me wondering…

I know it's become a MN thing, to say 'well why not propose to him?' but say that in a group of women IRL and you'll get some odd looks.

It's still the norm for men to make the first move, say 'I love you' first and do the proposing. I do think it's a bullshit hangover from when women were literally property to be owned and had to wait for everything to happen to them, but it is still seen as being the romantic and 'proper' way. And as men still tend to be the higher earners, there is still a small element of that - offering her financial security. Women who propose are seen as overtly trying to trap or as the OP says, snare a man.

The answer to it all ultimately will be financial equality.

Just out of interest, OP (and speaking as someone who isn't married but has been with DP for 18 years and has two children with him), what exactly is it that you feel you will get to enjoy from those couple of years of being married before TTC that you don't actually have now?

Or do you currently not live together and won't live together until marriage?

Genuinely curious, as (being in a not-married committed relationship) the only benefits I can personally see are legal/financial and I've always found the "only marriage feels like REAL COMMITMENT" a bit unfathomable.

There is no way that I would have had children before getting married.

There is no way that I would marry someone who wasn't sure if they wanted children. I think your partner is being very sensible about that op, if he does want children.

I don't know how to tell him without him thinking I'm just saying it to 'snare' him (I'm really not)

But you don't broach it like that. You can say exactly what you've said here. You want to get married but appreciate that children decisions need to be made.You are being fair to him too, to sort it out sooner rather than later. He needs to be free to find someone else if necessary. Tell him it's no longer working for you to be in "limbo".
This conversation isn't to ensnare him - it's a scary one as it may mean that you lose him. But it does need to take place sooner rather than later.

I'm curious about the "waiting 2 years after marriage to have children" thing too.

We agreed to wait 3 years because we hadn't lived together and we were both quite young and wanted some time together as a couple.

My daughter and son in law lived together before getting married and didn't wait long after marriage before having their children.

We both had about the same child free period.

OP being married isn't that different day to than being unmarried and living together.

You are caught in limbo and will be until either you make a decision regarding kids or he gets fed up up waiting.

You don't blurt out 'I might want kids', you have a discussion that includes 'I have been thinking about it and I might be coming round to the idea of kids'

But don't say that if you are still in the 'no' camp. Don't give him false hope and make sure you are clear you aren't 100% sure but are open to discussing it and discussing your future.

His reaction will show you what you need to know.

I'm not pro-marriage. If I did want to marry it would be something we both discussed, moved forward on together emotionally and practically.

Bit demeaning and weird and old-fashioned to be sitting there "waiting to be told I'm good enough" (I'm an independent adult) and rewarded with a sparkly ring.

I have nice jewellery anyway.

I've been married twice and with both marriage was something we both discussed rather than me sitting around waiting for the bloke to make a move. That seems very 1950s. If you want to discuss marriage then discuss marriage. It doesn't have to be you proposing to him just a "Do you think in the next couple of years you'd want to get married?" type discussion. I find it odd that some committed couples don't discuss marriage.

I know it's become a MN thing, to say 'well why not propose to him?' but say that in a group of women IRL and you'll get some odd looks.

Everyone on mn exists in real life and I am most definitely real and I think women should propose too. Well actually I think couples should have a talk and not jump out of bushes, diamond in hand (or however proposals work) but I know that isn't romantic enough for a lot of people.

Op you need to find out whether your dp wants to marry you. Would he marry you while you're undecided on children, would he marry you if you do want children. At the moment we are speculating that you decide you want children and he will automatically want to marry you when that might not be the case.

I also question what it is you expect to get in those two years of marriage that you definitely want to be childfree, unless as a pp said you do not live together.

I knew women who waited for ages to Get The Man To Ask.

They did "get" the man (one had a Valentines Day proposal set up by the waiter, etc).

I think that they spent too much time waiting for The Ring that they didn't notice other things that were off in the relationship.

By turning the man into a prize rather than a potential partner they weren't negotiating or communicating about things that actually impacted their happiness.

One wanted to live in his ancestral pile (in the middle of nowhere) and likes to drink and eat out in nice country pubs with a pretty woman on his arm - guess who now has to get dressed up and stay sober whilst her DH gets pissed, and play chauffeur most nights a week?

One where she needed to plan everything socially and he'd be "nice" but just go along with it rather than doing anything himself.

Both guys now seem happy, the women not so much.

[shrug] If I sat around waiting for the right person to ask me out, snog me, marry me, have a child with me, I would still be waiting for all these things to happen IMO. Without wanting to generalise too much, I've met a lot of men in my generation who are dewily romantic and emotional but not so great at the practical life decisions lark, and I'm happy for that to be my role while they write Valentine's cards and mull over whether they really love me or not. Also, I resemble the back of a bus, but am a good kisser, hard worker and a good life partner AFAIK, so I know that men will benefit from being with me . Anyone, male or female, who thinks less of me for taking action in these areas can jog on. Women have had financial independence at least in theory since the Married Women's Property Act, the rest is up to us, frankly.

Well, I sortof have ... in that I left him when it was clear the relationship wasn't leading to any kind of long-term commitment. We had had conversations about settling down together (he wasn't interested, said he was too young - also his dad in particular always advised him against settling down, seemed to think it was financially disadvantageous - although his parents were always very nice to me). We were in our mid 20s and had sustained a relationship for 4 years, including long-distance for 18 months, and I had moved job/city to be with him when he couldn't get a job in my town. I hated my new job and there was no reason I should stay. If he had wanted to get married I think we'd still be together... I thought the world of him.

What really annoyed me though was that he was married within a year or so to an "older lady" who already had 2 DCs. Cue lots of head-scratching from me.

But I am now happily married with my own DCs so I am not complaining!

Not quite - but I did once get as far as looking at flats to move out to.

I got fed up of my long-term partner not putting any thought into our shared future after we moved in together and coasting along without plans or any sense of immediacy, as I was certain that I wanted a baby (not right then, but ttcing would need to start within, say, 5 years), so after various discussions over the years that didnt change anything I gave him an ultimatum that eventually I would have to leave if he wasn't going to start the process of marrying me and ttc relatively soon. After a knee-jerk 'oh! the pressure! where has this all come from! what are these shocking new concepts!' (hence a frowny face and flathunt) he suggested 2 more months in which he would actually put some effort into discovering his own mind, and propose if he was going to - fortunately he decided that this was actually what he wanted and we are now married with DC.

I don't know what the wrongs and the rights of your situation are op. I can only tell you one universal truth gathered from the countless threads on here about marriage/cohabitation/ and children. If a man wants to get married, he will agree to get married either by proposing, you proposing or mutual agreement. Having a baby/babies before getting married (when he doesn't want to) is the guaranteed way to slam the door on your matrimonial hopes. As my grandma put it so prosaically 'why would you buy the cow when the milk and calves come for free ?' Delightful !

Yes, I am a bit old fashioned (mid 30s) and thought that the fact that he didn't propose after 2 years was a sign that he wasn't committed. So we had a chat about the future, and it became clear that he loved me but marriage wasn't on his radar. So we split up, although he wasn't very happy about it.

It was important to me to be married, so that we could build a future together...buy a house, have children etc. At the time I was late 20s, and wanted to have the last of any children before 35. Counting back, I'd want to start ttc around 30, which gave me a couple of years at most to find the right person. His timeline was different.

Luckily it worked out for me, but I would do the same again. I'd rather be single that with someone who isn't fully committed or with a different value system.

I have a rather unpopular theory about this.

Left to their own devices (no pressure from partner, society, family, her family etc) I believe most men wouldnt propose at all.

I don't think marriage is hugely important to men in a general sense (huge stereotyping). I think they propose because they meet some arbitrary time limit or because of covert and overt pressure from others.

How many men do you see full of angst becuase she doesn't want to get married yet? It's mostly a female issue

I think there's probably some truth in that Pantone, however unpopular the theory may be!

Pantone, how is that unpopular? Most of the culture agrees with you that weddings are women's business and most men have to be semi-forced into marriage and chafe constantly against its restrictions. Not my experience, as a matter of fact.

Unpopular because every time I've voiced the opinion ive been rounded on by women who insist their DHs married them without any pressure or expectation of a proposal at all.

This thread, plus someone else I know getting engaged, prompted me to bring up the subject with my partner again.

As expected, at first he tried to avoid the discussion, then he tried to brush me off with 'yes one day in the future' and 'what's the rush' and when I pressed the point that ten years is hardly rushing he got shirty and accused me of nagging.

To be honest it would be better if he said he didn't want to get married as I could then make a decision - but he is adamant that he will propose 'at some point.' Which is just not good enough - I'm not prepared to wait indefinitely for him to get round to it.

I told him we need to be engaged by no later than the end of this year or I will seriously consider ending the relationship. It's very hard as we have a great life together, but getting married is very important to me and the way he is treating me is not fair or respectful.

I'm glad the thread gave you the push you needed to broach the subject again razmataz.

10 years is more than long enough- you were right to issue the ultimatum, he's taking the piss!! I hope he shapes up and gives you what he's promised!

Thanks Chocolate - best of luck with yours too.

It's just such a frustrating situation, more so because of how reluctant he is to have a grown up conversation about it - yet for years has been talking about 'when we're married' etc.

I waited patiently because we were young when we got together and then we were saving to buy a house, but we are no longer that young nor that poor, so there just isn't any good reason to delay anymore, so he's just stringing me along at this point.

razmataz

Why don't you propose to him?

Then you would know.

Me and my dh didn't do a proposal. We just had a conversation and decided we wanted to get married and then set about arranging it. My dh said afterwards he was relieved he didn't have to do the proposal thing.

Yes. I made it clear that I saw marriage in the future. After seven years we still hadn't moved forward, he wouldn't buy a house even so I left. He was gutted and tried to get me back but once I was gone that was it. If he really valued me he'd have asked when I wanted it not out of panic once I had gone.