WIBU to ask…whether you’ve ever left a relationship/DP because they haven’t proposed?

[Chocolateaddict9]

The recent thread in here got me thinking….has anyone left a partner because after a certain amount of time they hadn’t got a marriage proposal? If so, how long did you wait before you finally accepted they probably were never going to marry you?

My own personal circumstances (which I don’t really want to go into but are not that dissimilar to the OP’s in the other thread) has got me wondering…

What would he do if was infertile?

Dump himself.

You say he is wonderful. That's great.

Choosing not to have kids and not being able to have them is two different situations.

He would be stupid to get married without finding out wether you want children. It's a deal breaker for some, but not all. He may decide to sacrifice having children to be with you when faced with losing you.

It wouldn't be fair on either of you.

If then one of you turns out to be infertile (which is really unlikely) you work through it together as a couple. You know it's 'in sickness and in health'.

If you feel you need to know if you are fertile before marrying him, that's up to you though, or course.

expat I don't get how people don't bring up what they want when the relationship becomes exclusive. If marriage is something you want, then you make that clear. If the other party isn't the marrying type, that comes out and you leave.

All the cases I know about, and in my own, the men in question professed to want to get married and/or have children -- but in the future. The problem is that "the future" never seems to come, and before you know it, five years have gone by and it is still "not the right time" or "we should think about this next year, when we've done X, Y or Z."

On the other hand, I know a worrying number of women who've lived with long-term partners for nearly twenty years, men who have said they don't want to get married or have children a situation the woman has accepted because they love the man only to find their partner walks out one day when they are both in their early 40s and, not twelve months later, said man has married someone in their early 30s and there is a baby on the way.

No, I am not one of ‘those women’ that would enter a relationship and NEVER talk about the future earlier on. We did talk about the future early on, I made it clear I was unsure about children, said perhaps it was better if we called it quits now. He persuaded me otherwise and said ‘let’s just enjoy this and see where it goes and I will hope in time that you might come around to wanting children.’

I did make it clear that, irrespective of children I wouldn’t be happy to be together long term and not be married. That was when we agreed to revisit the whole thing at some point this year and see where we are/stand.

I have to admit, I’m not as against the idea of children as I once was, some days even think maybe it would be nice…then others, when I see a screaming child in a supermarket with a harassed, miserable looking mum, I change my mind again!

ARGH!

And all of this may be redundant anyway if even if I were to change my mind about children, he doesn’t view me as ‘the one’ he would want to do all of that with.

And all of this may be redundant anyway if even if I were to change my mind about children, he doesn’t view me as ‘the one’ he would want to do all of that with.

That's a separate issue though. If you aren't sure you want kids, he may not think of you that way. Because...whats the point?

You need to revisit the children conversation and see if you are the one he would like to marry and have kids with. If it was his choice.

Everything seems very up in the air and I can see why he hasn't proposed.

If he doesn't see your relationship as a long term thing, then yes you should end it. Not easy but best in the long run.

I am not sure why you think he should propose given the situation though.

Chicken and egg.

Is he holding back his emotions because he knows he's likely to get hurt if he has to end it when kids are definitely not an option, so he is not fully "into" the relationship?
Or is he not proposing because he knows that he can't marry you with no kids but he can't bring himself to end it because he loves you so much?

Either way, nothing is going to be resolved until the children bit is decided. When he knows what is what, then he can decide whether he wants you or kids most.

Yes, exactly, I was really hurt when he said it. To me, marriage is about a lot more than just children. It’s a public commitment, a legal commitment to the one you love. With or without children.

He would be a fool to propose if he knows that eventually he wants kids and you may not. Tht's not fair on him or you. You seem to forget that just because kids are of no consequence to you, they are vital to some peoples well being and happiness no matter how much you love someone.

And infetility is a completely separate issue.

How about if 3 years in, you had the talk and the DP said that they still weren't sure whether they wanted to marry you. One party wanted children and the other party was undecided.

Sorry I haven't RTFT. I was reading it then read this which I wanted to comment on. I will go back and RTFT. I was with my ex for 11 years. I never wanted to get married (didn't see the point, just a bit of paper,we were living together so committed etc.) and I was adamant I never wanted DC. He wanted both. We split and I met DH about 2 years later. I knew really quickly that I wanted to get married to him. It felt deferent to my ex. There were no doubts. And I wasn't so aghast by the prospect of having DC. Looking back I think it's not that I didn't want to get married, it's that I didn't want to get married to my ex. We should have split long before we did.

The reason I share my experience is so I can give prospective on my comment. I really believe that if you want to get married then you shouldn't hang around waiting for someone that isn't sure/isn't bothered to change their mind. You are taking a risk of been in a relationship with someone that will never change their mind or someone that harbours doubts about you but that person hasn't admitted it to themselves yet. I feel really bad about it now but my ex waited for me to change and I never did. On a positive his met and married someone now.

I will go and finish RTFT now.

I guess, I don't really think he should propose- not at the moment anyway obviously. I do think however, he should tell me, honestly and openly and frankly whether he is A) prepared to stay with me if it turns out I don't want children or B) Marry me and settle down if it's decided that I do.

Whenever we've had these 'where do you see this relationship going' conversations it's because I've BROUGHT them up and I'm sick of it. It makes me seem unreasonable/needy/bunny boilerish. I want him to actually take control and be honest, not for me to have to keep bringing it up.

I agree that now is make or break time. But you haven't decided either. So the A or B question applies just as much to you as to him.

Everytime you bring it up you don't give him the answer he wants. So what's the point of him bringing it up. It's obvious that if you change your mind and will have children you are likely to tell him straight away.

You are both in limbo - both undecided. Decision time for both of you. One of you needs to take the bull by the horn and issue an ultimation. Otherwise this could go on for a long time. It's bothering you more than him so it will have to be you.

Crunch question.
Are you prepared to have kids to keep him? If you decide no then his crunch question is. Do I want to marry chocolate even though we won't have kids. If he decides no then there is no future.

Decision time

It's unfair to expect him to make his decision if you can't yourself.

If the situation hasn't changed, ie you don't want kids, then why would he bring it up.

He suggested seeing where it goes and maybe you will change your mind.

If you can't carry on 'just seeing how it goes' (which is completely understandable, I couldn't either) then you need to tell him and break it off.

If I was with someone who didn't want kids and they knew it was a deal breaker for me. I would expect them to be the one bringing it up and letting me know if things had changed.

If he were to bring it up a lot maybe you would feel pressured into having a child.

Reading your posts it's sounds as if you feel he isn't invested in the relationship and in you. But he won't be until you decide either way on kids.

Yes, I would be willing to have children to keep him. However, I'm aware that will be frowned up on here and in general society. Also, he wouldn't allow that. He would only have children with me if I genuinely wanted them.

Maybe I'll have to catch him on one of my 'actually it could be quite nice to have children' days.

We have got a lot going on the next 2 months so I will wait until the spring to have the final convo, and in that time will spend A LOT of time thinking honestly about whether a life without children is attractive to me.

If someone told me tomorrow that I couldn't have children, I think I'd be gutted....but I can't put my finger on why. Maybe because we always want what we haven't got?

Perhaps it might be wise to tell him of the timescale. Because he has some serious thinking to do too. You both need to lay your cards on the table. You never know he may decide that he can't live without you, even without kids.

Tell him striaght that in 2 months time it is make or break decision time and that you both need to do some serious thinking.

How old are you Op? At 26 I was still undecided. By 30 I wouldn't consider marrying a man unless he wanted kids. I have also been surprised by two couples who we thought wouldn't have them but did so in their late thirties. It interesting the "gutted" feeling. But it would be unfair of you both to keep each other hanging on in the hope that the other changes their mind.

Op, there's a vast difference between not wanting children and not being able to have any. Many couples struggle to have children, but the intention is there iyswim.

And committing to have children doesn't mean that you have to undergo fertility testing to ensure you can deliver on that commitment. when we talk about wanting to have children it's the process we talk about, because there are actually no guarantees in life.

When I was with XH we ttc for six years for a second baby. We had some tests, and at the time XH was told that he had a low sperm count, enough so that his fertility was considered limited. We never followed this up but XH said at the time that I should just leave him to have babies with someone else. My response to that was why would I? I was with him, we'd already had one baby, and besides leaving wouldn't mean I would run straight into the arms of someone else able to give me babies. However if at the beginning of our relationship he'd said that he didn't want children I wouldn't have married him, because our life plans would have been too different to be compatible.

Your dp actually sounds very reasonable in his approach, even down to the point of not wanting to have children with someone who would have them just to keep him. Children change the dynamic of a relationship completely, and if you were having them just to keep your husband, then that could create a lot of resentment and possibly end up in the relationship breaking down anyway to the detriment of not only the two of you but also the children you had in order to maintain the relationship.

You need to decide what you want as well. And if that means that perhaps you don't know yet, then you need to be honest about that. But while you still don't know whether you want children it is unreasonable to expect him to marry you. Because if in five years time you decide you don't want children and he decides that is a deal breaker, then ending a marriage is far more painful and involves far more upheaval than just walking away from a cohabiting relationship.

I've been with my DP for 4 years, we have 2 children together but we're not married.
He's not proposed but often discussed 'one day when we're married' he claims that he wants to do the traditional thing of consulting my dad etc which makes me boak, I don't want a wedding as such, just a quick registry office and maybe a meal with family afterwards, I don't like the wedding industry at all. He wants to big white fairy tale wedding though and that's what's apparently stopping him proposing. I'm not doing it because we'd still end up at the same problem. I'm not going to leave him because apart from this we're very much on the same page with life and I love him but I have said I want to visit someone for legal advice on how to protect myself and put children in the event of a death or split. He's fine with this.

Spend those two months really thinking about it.

Even mentioning it in passing may start up a converstation.

You would feel sad if you found out you were infertile because the choice has been taken away from you.

When dh went for the snip he waited longer than he wanted because I wasn't ready. I definitely didn't want any more kids, but I didn't want to be not able to have anymore. If that makes sense. I just wanted the choice even though I knew I wouldn't change my mind.

You need to make up your mind on having kids (your age and your dp may set how long this is) because he may decide that since you haven't changed your mind yet, you won't change it at all. Or you may end up waiting that long you are too old and fertility is effected and the. You are sad because you can't have the baby you now want.

Does he know you have moved from the 'no' camp to the 'maybe' camp?

And don't have a baby just to keep him. That rarely ends well.

It may be a case of you jut want different things in which case you should split.

But that's not splitting because he hasn't proposed as you said in your OP. I think it's sensible that he hasn't.

I know this is going to sound ridiculous but I always thought I'd be married by the time I was 30- certainly most of my friends are. My grandparents are getting old and one set have been more like parents to me at some stages of my life, I would really like them to be present at my wedding and would be gutted if I got married and they'd already deceased. Likewise my dad who is getting on now too and has health troubles.

I've also said that if I ever did have children it absolutely wouldn't be unless I was married to the person and then, I would like to just enjoy being married for a year or 2 before TTC etc. The thought of getting married and a few months later being pregnant just really doesn't appeal to me. I'm 29 now, so even if I were to change my mind this year, that doesn't leave all that much time for all that really does it?!

I think sitting in a relationship waiting for a man to propose is a bit pathetic. If you talk about marriage and he says "I want to marry you and I want to be the one to propose" and he doesn't propose, so you hang on for years, wishing and hoping but not daring to bring up the subject for fear of being a 'nag', there are far more serious problems with your relationship than lack of a proposal and you should leave.

With the children thing, I don't think not wanting children is a bad thing at all. It's completely your choice and I don't think anyone should try and force you to change your mind, nor do I think you should change your mind to please another. But it is important that you and your partner are on the same page. If he wants to have children then why would he marry (with the intention of a lifetime commitment) someone who doesn't, or isn't sure.

No, he has no idea I've moved from the 'No' to the 'Maybe' camp.

I don't know how to tell him without him thinking I'm just saying it to 'snare' him (I'm really not)

Sorry op I hadn't read your response before I posted and was not directing the first bit at you.

It does seem as if the decision needs to be made sooner rather than later. Much thinking and communicating I think. You want to get married. It's only fair to do so if he knows your decision and can live with it.

Good luck op.

Do you know what your reasons are for and against having children? Maybe if you thought through it in a really detailed way that would help you decide.

"I would like to just enjoy being married for a year or 2 before TTC etc. The thought of getting married and a few months later being pregnant just really doesn't appeal to me. I'm 29 now, so even if I were to change my mind this year, that doesn't leave all that much time for all that really does it?!"

Well, it certainly leaves some time, unless you are planning on having a slew of offspring. Speaking as someone who had their children at 37 and 40.

Well, perhaps I am being a bit dramatic there. It does leave some time yes, but I know I DO want a big wedding with all my friends and family present. This costs ££££ and so would probably need to save for 2 years, so just say for arguments sake we agreed on the children issue (having them) if we got engaged say late this year, or early 2017, that means we wouldn't be married until 2019, by which time I'd be 32, I would like to be married ideally for 1.5-2 years before starting a family, by that time I'd be 33-34, so no, not drastically out of time but that's if everything happens in the next few months.

If longer, I'd be nearer 35-36 which, again, would probably be fine but if there were any problems in conceiving, you're not left with a lot of time are you?!

Anyway, this is all hypothetical as I do need to make a decision on children soon either way. I know I can't go on for another 3 years like this, that's for sure.

I feel like we're in complete limbo and whilst friends are excitedly planning futures, him and I are awkwardly burying our heads in the sand and avoiding talking about anything to do with the future. It's sad and not how I want to live.