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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to not encourage them to say thank you?

149 replies

DorothyL · 01/01/2016 22:27

My brother and I have never got on well. As adults we lived in different countries and only saw each other when I visited my mum. I have a good relationship with his wife and three children and have spent a lot of time with them. 18 months ago my db left my sil, she took it badly. I have supported her, which in turn led to him being angry with me, culminating in him cutting contact with me 6 weeks ago. For christmas gave my nephew three €15 gift vouchers for my three dc. Db has in all my children's lives never had more contact with them than to say hello and goodbye. He has frequently made it clear that he thinks my ds's behaviour (autism related) is down to my bad parenting.

My mother has now said to me that I should encourage my children to write a thank you for the vouchers - written thank yous have never happened before as thank yous were expressed in person when we saw each other. I disagree, if anything I am wondering if I should have returned the gift vouchers. What do you think?

OP posts:

WorraLiberty · 01/01/2016 23:53

I would have thought the 14 year old would have sent a text or a FB message by now, thanking him anyway.

Lilifer · 02/01/2016 00:05

Im with littlebeautybelle

My father sounds exactly like OPs brother. This guy is trying to manipulate and get at his sister through her kids. If it were me i would send the gift back, but if OP decides the kids should keep them then perhaps a brief note of thanks from them would suffice.

But this is about manipulation by OP brother and not out of any real desire to foster a relationship with his nieces/nephews. If he was sincere about that he should try and mend his bridges with his sister first.

Some things are more important than manners, like principle, integrity and loyalty.

LittleBeautyBelle · 02/01/2016 00:06

Return the vouchers, that's what I meant when I said I wouldn't accept them.

Yes, OP, your integrity must be top shelf, while your brother's behavior apparently can all be swept under the rug for a 15 voucher pack.

OP's brother cuts contact with OP, then tries to get in good graces with her children suddenly while isolating OP, their mother. I wouldn't call that good will at all. His sister supporting his ex wife and children in the face of him leaving them is a subtle reminder to him of what he's done. He is now playing the part of good uncle when he never has before and he's playing that part while cutting off their mother. Absolutely would not stand for that. It is manipulative on his part.

Personally, I'd put the vouchers in the trash can. She is not obligated to keep them, return them, or say thank you for something she believes is given for an ulterior motive. And a true gift is freely given without expectation of reward, right? Let OP's brother rest in the warmth of his sudden, suspect generosity toward OP's children while shunning OP, sans coveted thank you note. Yes, he would love that thank you note, OP. That's why your mother is insisting on it. Simply don't send it. Don't let the manners brigade guilt trip you. Manners were gone long ago when he left his wife and children and resented you for having empathy for them. To me, it sounds like your brother is self-serving and likes recruiting people to his side even when he is in the wrong, not caring if his actions isolate his ex, his children, his sister.

Lilifer · 02/01/2016 00:06

I say that becuase i have known people to have the most impeccable manners and yet to be the most rotten, nasty and even sociopathic individuals underneath that veneer of manners.

Lilifer · 02/01/2016 00:13

agree again littlebeautybelle

People who behave like OPs brother rely on the common courtesy and decency of the people they trample all over to get away with their behaviour.

OP dont be manipulated or guilt tripped by people like your mother who mean well but are like rabbits in the headlight of this sort of abusive behaviour.

LittleBeautyBelle · 02/01/2016 00:14

Yes, Lilifer!

Nanny0gg · 02/01/2016 01:08

Why? Just because it's good manners?

Yes, if you keep the vouchers. There's nothing wrong with good manners.

However, if you don't want him in your lives (tricky if you're in his children's lives) then return the vouchers and then there's no obligations.

kali110 · 02/01/2016 01:56

beauty could well have it. In that case you should return the vouchers.
Theres also the chance he does want to connect with your kids, just not you.
It can sometimes take a huge falling out to make relatives realise what is important.
There is a huge divide in my family.
Aunts and uncles don't speak to each other, but all the cousins do, and they can speak to whoever they want, as the row is nothing to do with them.

Original poster

DorothyL · 02/01/2016 05:10

LittleBelle you sum up exactly my feelings about it.

I am in no way inclined to think that he is suddenly wishing to be a good uncle. He has hurt me deeply in the past by criticising my parenting instead of supporting me in my upbringing of ds. I don't even think the presents are that generous, considering he is very well off and vouchers are quite a lazy way of giving a present.

Last year he gave them vouchers of €20 each, so they have been punished already

OP posts:

Original poster

DorothyL · 02/01/2016 05:18

We are in a country that isn't as hot on manners as the UK, so that a thank you note would look quite ott. I am reluctant to encourage them to message or email as it is starting a conversation, and I think any attempt at a conversation should be started by him - he is the adult who has until now chosen to effectively ignore his dn's. Even the vouchers came with no personal greeting.

How about my dd's send my nephew, who is with my db this weekend, a message to pass on their thanks? That way manners are observed but it's quite low key?

OP posts:

venividivicky · 02/01/2016 05:32

If he sent vouchers last year then it shouldn't be that unexpected to receive them this year. Can't you just send a short e-mail or text as a PP suggested? It would be quicker than starting this thread TBH. He has already scored a point by the angst he is causing you.

I would send it not only for good manners' sake, but also for your DM, as this quarrel must be painful for her.

I can't see how he is going to become involved in your DC's lives if he never sees them.

DeckTheWallsWithLotsOfMolly · 02/01/2016 05:32

What is stopping you from returning the vouchers? You seem unwilling to say thanks, but that is really the only polite option when accepting a gift. Have to say I'm curious about this country too!

Original poster

DorothyL · 02/01/2016 05:40

What stops me returning them is the fact that my dc's would be missing out, when they were involved in choosing and giving thoughtful presents for my dn's.

OP posts:

Original poster

DorothyL · 02/01/2016 05:44

I know it's not nice for my DM, but I didn't choose this

OP posts:

Chottie · 02/01/2016 06:06

I agree with everyone else. Don't drag your DCs into the relationship you have with your DB. Your DCs should send a thank you letter.

Regarding your DB, is there anyway forward you could have a civil relationship? It just sounds so awful, don't your DCs pick up on it? Someone has to make the first move, would you consider sending him a new year card with a brief message in it?

Original poster

DorothyL · 02/01/2016 06:44

But what would I write?

OP posts:

Jengnr · 02/01/2016 06:53

Send a text saying thank you. Ignore any reply. Job done.

He's being a knob, you know this. A text won't change that but it will give you back the moral highground. And keeps the kids out of any further attempts at manipulation.

LynetteScavo · 02/01/2016 07:07

I'd send a typed letter signed by the DC.

That way you maintain the moral high ground.

But you obviously don't want to thank him,so probably won't. But your mother is right.

Julius02 · 02/01/2016 07:11

I think you should separate your feelings for your brother from the fact that he has given a gift to your children. If they take the vouchers then it is polite for them to say thank you. Ask the 14 year old to write a short note for them all to sign, send it, then the job is done and you can move on and stop thinking about it.

Enjolrass · 02/01/2016 07:17

Personally I think Yabu.

They aren't your gift to return, imo. And of course you should say thank you.

I don't get on with my sil or dbro. I would still expect my children to say thank you to them.

Get one of your kids to text him if possible. Or send a generic thank you card. It doesn't have to be gushing. Just simply 'thank you for the vouchers'.

ChubbyPolecat · 02/01/2016 07:20

Your kids have got nothing to do with your argument with your brother. Send the thanks and move on

LittleBeautyBelle · 02/01/2016 07:56

OP, having your dd pass on thanks to your brother is fine. Personally, I would not thank him because he should make amends with you, not cutting you off while trying to suddenly have a relationship with your children which he's never done before. It's not about the vouchers, it's the context in which he's giving them, his past and present behavior, and cutting you off and isolating you. It's about his motives.

He resents you stepping out of his crooked line to support his ex and his children, whom he abandoned in the first place. I admire you for standing against the tide and standing strong with them. Your children are learning to be fair and just and empathetic. Trust your instincts in regard to the vouchers and don't give in to manipulative pressure.

No need to worry over this, he is playing games with you and things will escalate if you start capitulating to him now.

If he is manipulating your dc as you feel he is, then all this does have to do with them and it is involving them, it's about his motivations.

limitedperiodonly · 02/01/2016 09:07

They thanked him in person at the time, didn't they?

What more does he want? An embossed card to put on his mantelpiece?

neonrainbow · 02/01/2016 09:11

Stop using your kids to score points against your brother.

Original poster

DorothyL · 02/01/2016 10:42

Neon, I have spent years being closely involved and caring with hid children, and friendly to him, even though he ignored my children and actively expressed his dislike of my ds to my mum and sil repeatedly. He has treated my sil badly since leaving her. I have not volunteered my opinions to him but when he wanted me to express support for him I told him that I couldn't.

Another thing that irks is my mother's relentless drive to please my brother. She used to brief me what latest work project I could ask him polite questions about but didn't defend ds enough I feel.

I do find manners important but I want to find a way to say thank you in the most perfunctory manner possible, for him not to feel that I am using my children to try to get back into his good books.

OP posts:

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