To wonder if you know anyone who has never really worked?

[doitanyways]

If so, how did their life pan out?

In particular, what did they do after retirement age?

OP: I appreciate that you have specific concerns and my remarks were directed more at the usual dimwit benefit bashers than at you.

goodnightthat's rubbish why am i not contributing to society? I am saving the tax payer thousands every year looking after two elders 1 with dementia severe, other depression or dementia not sure, but disability issues and other medical issues.

raising my little ones, husband pays for my upkeep and theirs. Apart from child benefit we don't live on benefits don't make assumptions. Just because a person works full time in paid work it does not mean they are better citizens or even superior and the rest of us bums, i work my butt off.

Yes i know of some people but they are in their twenties rather than retirement age.

'looking after my children is work'..'im a housewife and do housework thats work'....weird how some people care for children, do housework and have a paying job too !

yes potatomy sis does it and shes always complaining no time to spend with her kids. her kids say mum is never around they don't want the luxuries they want their mother.

sis wouldn't work she said just housework and cooking is hard work, having to work on top is too much. if her husband would train up theyd meet the mortage but he refuses happy in his manual job and lacks ambition so she has no choice.

i don't see why being a mother housewife home maker whatever should be demeaned, it is an unpaid job and a very important one.

btw I'm not saying ppl shouldn't work but its not as idyllic as people make out and not everyone who isn't in paid work is sitting on benefits that really pees me off assumptions.

Sorry to hear this is coming from your concern for your brother, OP. It's sad when you have a family member with mental health issues who won't get help. The 'male family member' I mentioned upthread is actually my brother. Similar situation to you: anger issues, anxiety, depression, social isolation / withdrawal but according to him the rest of the world is crazy and he's more intelligent than any of us 'normals'.

It does wear away at me when I think about how he has wasted his life and how bleak his future looks. I am estranged from him, however, and live abroad so it's my parents' problem. And it has broken their hearts dealing with him over the years but they do enable him too. I have no clue what the solution for him might be at this stage though because he is late 40s and only getting more entrenched in his oddness as the years go on. I made a decision to distance myself from it all when I moved away from home for the sake of my own sanity!

Good luck and I hope you find a way to help your brother.

Thank you :) In some ways, I think he's beyond help - I don't mean that horribly, but he won't accept he has a disability but that disability prevents him working. Stalemate.

I think the immediate priority has to be getting the house and garden into some sort of condition that is liveable (my dad would be SO upset ) so I'm going to start a thread on the property board. If any of you are any good at homes or gardens it would be greatly appreciated :)

So I am going to move in (shudder) at the beginning of February. I'll rent my apartment out which will help fund repairs and replacements. I think the company will do him good; I'm not in very much but I think just having another human around and following the daily routine of getting up and going to work will help ease him into some form of normality.

Here's to a 2016

I know exactly what you are saying Maryz but to be honest, one of the things I find stressful at the moment is coming in after work (I have two jobs) and then trekking out again to see him.

It's honestly going to take months to get the house fit for sale: in fairness to my brother it wasn't fantastic beforehand as my dad was a bit of a funny one with decorating and knitted the entire house out with furniture from charity shops, and I love charity shops and am not being critical of them but the result is mismatched and rather shabby furniture! He'd also developed a habit of hoarding - I think partly because he was getting forgetful and would buy things like kitchen roll on a 3 for 2 offer and then buy another one the next week

I think the primary issue at the moment is cosmetic repairs. The boiler has packed in, so no heating or hot water, the fencing has all fallen down and because it's one of those estates like a rabbit warren this means that not only next door but the back of the house and the side of the house have free access to my dads garden (luckily the neighbours are lovely) the front door won't open the kitchen isn't usable and then this whole depressing effect is undermined by a load of shabby cluttered furniture, grubby carpets and cheap laminate in the lounge that's badly put down by someone (probably dad.)

If I could get the house warm, secure and with a usable kitchen that would be a start but that's going to take at least three months for financial reasons.

doitanyways. Are you sure moving in is a wise decision. My DB (56) has many of the issues you describe - he has proved almost impossible to help and lives in squalor of his own making (hoarding, not cleaning or washing clothes). I have taken a step back - I now "help" by having him to stay periodically - I wash his clothes, feed him well for a week or so and then he goes back home. He has some support from MIND but despite being very vulnerable (at one point we found that someone had moved into his home, would not leave and was bullying him), I have not found SS of any use - a single adult male who is "coping" is low down on their list of priorities.

I have known a few...but the biggest one..
old next door neighbours ...when we moved in (1990) they were early 50s had never had a proper job...just a bit of 'on the side' every so often..they spent their days gardening, chopping wood for the fires, doing craft stuff, smoking pot. They only went out once a week to do a bit of shopping. They had a car but rarely used it.
The wife said raising the children was her job - they had 5
He said that paid employment was a 'trap' and he wished to live his life simply and without conforming to societal restrictions

You're absolutely correct that a 'coping' adult male will be so low down as to be non existent, especially when said adult male is so adamant he doesn't require help!

I am going to move in (shudder) at the beginning of February.

Eeek – don’t do that! The company may be good for your brother but it will be very unhealthy for you. If driving to visit your brother is wearing you out then I’m afraid the best answer is to drive there less often, at whatever seeming cost to him. First and foremost you must protect yourself if only because if you get ill he will have no support at all.

I do agree with the people who have suggested contacting charities (such as the National Autistic Society helpline www.autism.org.uk/services/helplines/main.aspx ) and social services. Asking for outside help can become a way of stepping back.

As for doing up the house to sell it: realistically, how will your brother cope with the process of house selling and moving? Will he agree to it? Can you make that happen without his agreement? If he knows you are considering selling the place where he lives then his anxiety and agitation are likely to ramp up enormously. You can’t live sanely with him while that happens.

This must be so difficult for you.

It's not to sell it necessarily :) just to make it liveable!

a 'coping' adult male will be so low down as to be non existent

But even so, do try if you haven’t already done so. Especially if you give them a realistic picture of the state he is in and the way he is living (did you say he has no heat/hot water?) and the effect it is having on you. It sounds as if he has no income at all? Pre-supposing that no-one else will help can be harmful. It would be safer to put your energy over the next few months into finding some kind of outside support for him, however limited that help may be.

Really illuminating posts here. "Getting a statement" for a child. Like it's that easy. I fight all the time to get my kids a decent education- statements are not handed out like smarties.

Oh, and mental health disorders aren't disabilities? That's a new one one me.

Oh well, more info for my tosser spreadshit.

But that's my other worry - if you move in with him "to make it liveable" then you become his carer full stop and outside agencies are even more likely to lose interest. How will you avoid being stuck there forever?

My husband grew up on a local authority estate in West Dublin and a couple of his neighbours never worked.
The man next door for example. Father of 6 children, his wife is very industrious. She raised the kids, had cleaning jobs, was on lots of local committees, she cared for her parents before they died and minds some of her grandchildren. Her husband reads the paper and only goes outside to smoke.
What a boring life.
Another neighbour also never worked, he had 9 kids. According to DH they were the first house to have a video player, DVD player, satilite dish, new TV etc.

But that's my other worry - if you move in with him "to make it liveable" then you become his carer full stop and outside agencies are even more likely to lose interest. How will you avoid being stuck there forever?

This is so true. You need to find a way to live your own life. You can support your brother without moving in with him and without visiting every day. I have had to realise that my DB cannot be "fixed" and does not want to live in the way I consider comfortable.

People have such crap ideas of what "coping" is for an adult (or even child) with HFA :( He doesnt sound like he's coping to me.

I have no advice, but want to wish you luck at getting something sorted

Anyone who thinks "getting a Statement" for a child is a simple affair lives in cloud cuckoo land and has NO understand g f how the system works and how bloody hard it is to get that legal document. They are like hens teeth, it took me two years of fighting to get one for DS and I onky succeeded when the LEA had that piece of paper which listed Autism,ADHD, Dyspraxia, Dyslexia and Learnug Difficulties written down in black and white.

That was five years ago..l.today I would still be fighting even with that. They simply do not want to assess these children and my opinion is they couldn't give a toss as long as their budget targets are met. Children can just suffer for all they care.

The above is a bit off topic I know but it pisses me off when people make the assumption that it's a simple process.....it bloody well isn't...and it's even worse since they switched to EHCPs.

On topic.....I am 49 now and I have never known anyone Ho has never worked. I know people who have worked as little as possible (but still worked), I have known those who have worked between illnesses (and I include addiction in that), I have known those in and out of work because what they specialise in is sporadic.

I know one or two who work on the side because work is sporadic and all claims take so long now it isn't practical to sign off benefits and then sign in again two months later....especially now they pay everything five weeks in arrears meaning you start with rent arrears. Years ago I might have reported them....no longer though as the five week n arrears thing is stupid and I can see why my acquaintances wouldn't bother.

Even when working with families I rarely met a household where nobody was in work. Mostly someone had a job which might be temporary but they would then be out of work a few weeks until the next one came along.

I think it's a fallacy that generations of people are out of work?

My mother and my father.

Dad's at retirement age now and mum is nearing it. He never worked if you don't count cash-in-hand, on paper he claimed disability for a back problem. Mum was a 'housewife'.

They're very well off now, actually. Dad's disability claim is now valid since he's gotten older and his health has deteriorated, and mum is now claiming for arthritis and vision problems. They claim as eachother's carers, get full housing and council tax benefit for their council house and have a nice big car thanks to Motability.

Still manage to be hard done by

And thankfully are in the minority.

That's the thing; if you move in, do the place up, then move out again, what do you think it will look like in a month's time? So.. you keep living with him? Sell up?

What would your ideal situation look like two years down the line? Ten?

I don't think any outside agencies would be interested. Honestly, I'm not trying to be difficult but even if they could get involved he would never let them.

At least if I get the house habitable he's set up, to a point. It's a start.