To wonder if you know anyone who has never really worked?

[doitanyways]

If so, how did their life pan out?

In particular, what did they do after retirement age?

Mavis, I was under the impression that if you claimed PIP or whatever then you could not also claim as a Carer.

Or have I got that wrong?

I have no idea, they tell me they claim as eachothers' carers

Look, he is an adult man. Who refuses help.

You need to step back. If he doesn't want your help, he doesn't want it. And if he comes to see you "to run something past you", you need to tell him that you won't be talking to him until X (you specify the conditions).

This is very harsh and very hard, I know. And you may lose your brother, yes. But you have to protect yourself first. And what you are doing is sacrificing your life for your brother.

As they say on airplanes, help yourself before helping others. Drowning yourself will not help your drowning brother.

And do you seriously think your brother is going to maintain the house in a proper condition once you leave, if he won't even take care of himself? Or will you have to stay on to ensure that things get done?

I know you love your brother. But you can't sacrifice your life for him - and, from what you say, it will just mean that he will become even more dependent on you.

Don't worry, I'm a long way from drowning :)

I once had to go on a course about dementia. We had to watch a really heartbreaking video called Darkness in the Afternoon, and in it you saw a beautiful young woman stuck in a house, obviously panicked and frightened. She eventually got out and made her way to a park where an elderly man was bothering her and following her around. I forget the details, but you're led to believe he is the one with dementia until they end up at a police station and the beautiful young woman sits in front of a mirror and sees an elderly woman with white hair and a nightie.

I'm not suggesting my brother has dementia but the parallels are there.

He doesn't see someone who drifted since university and ended up on drugs and being admitted to a psychiatric ward and can't hold a job and has few friends (if any) and struggles with personal hygiene.

He sees a misunderstood genius.

He may be a misunderstood genius, or more likely have flashes of it that he doesn't know how to use properly, in amongst everything else, but society no longer has much space or concern for such souls.

The problem with 'setting up the house' for him with no further plan, is actually you're removing the visible symptoms of him not coping, despite his claims to not need help, so you're helping hide his problems.

Are you his only income source, and does the house belong to him or both of you?

At present I'm his only source of income, yes. The house belongs to him.

I don’t think you’re being difficult at all – you are in a very difficult position. You obviously feel a huge obligation to your brother, and to your parents too. I just wanted to be clear about the implications of moving in with him because it might not be the “good start” you hope for. Do think about whether it is practical to renovate a house and garden while holding down two jobs and caring for your brother. If you do move in then – assuming you don’t want to live with him forever – you need a practical exit strategy and you may have to accept that he (and the house) will take a big step down when (if) you move out again.

My experience of “outside agencies” is that sometimes they do offer help but it is always on their terms. So what they offer is usually not exactly what we want, or exactly how we want it, or when we want it. As long as you are there at your brother’s beck and call, driving backwards and forwards, doing his house up, reassuring him for hours on end, agreeing to patch him up and all on his terms, he wont have to accept help from anyone else on their terms. It may be better in the long run to stand tough and let things take their course.

As long as you are there at your brother’s beck and call, driving backwards and forwards, doing his house up, reassuring him for hours on end, agreeing to patch him up and all on his terms, he wont have to accept help from anyone else on their terms. It may be better in the long run to stand tough and let things take their course.

^^^THIS

So you move in with him and do his house up. Assuming you sell it and he gets the money. And then what?

I kmow what you mean but I also know that he won't accept any help from outside agencies.

It's all 'when I get a job'.

But you're right as well, and I need to have a think about how best to manage this (I can't see him selling the house.)

Through my job I know very many people who have never had a job. Some because of illness, but some because they are bone idle wasters who think the world owes them a living. In real life I can never say this, but some people really do sit around all day like an episode of Jeremy Kyle. As I'm on call tonight so I can deal with some of them when they get too drunk and I am called in to rescue their kids, I am in a bad mood. So for once I'm allowed to moan. Sure someone will be along to tell me I'm wrong, but there you go. It's the job I chose as the kids haven't done anything wrong. But some of the adults need a v large steel toed boot up their bums. Happy New Year folks.

Sooner or later you’ll either have to take action or step away. (or the 1st followed by 2nd) I doubt you can fund him all your life.

IMO better off doing either sooner and while the evidence of what his life looks like without intervention is plain to see.
If you’re his income source, then my advice is somehow you need to use issues to convince him that A) you can no longer afford or will no longer afford to be this, and therefore
you are turning to the state for help with your financial load, (him!)
so B) you understand how hard and miserable the system is to negotiate and try and get him to give written permission to be his DWP appointee and do it for him.
He will probably consider the benefits system beneath him, demeaning, whatever. Your aim is simply to get him in it at any level.
It's likely to incur massive rows, possible self harm, etc, but you can’t carry on like this forever.

You then go into battle with them to get him ESA and or PIP as his appointee, (allows you to explain his condition, obsession, anger etc) long term end aim being to try to get him into a permitted work (self-employed if pretty unemployable) and try to work his way of it.

Even failed attempts will create records onto the system, eventually becoming evidence of his difficulties in themselves, and when everything crashes there will be at least some evidence to work with.

Selling the house won't last him long will it? It's his only asset. Only other thing I can think of is equity release on the house, but that brings it’s own dangers.

. I’m sorry if this sounds harsh, but if you don’t find a way out you can live with, the rate you’re going you’re headed for drifting into being his hidden carer unplanned, with him calling all the shots, and you losing your quality of life.
What happens if you become ill, old, or disabled? It's what's happened here.

He's not selling the house (that I know of!)

We both have a flat and a house. At present, I live in the flat and rent out my house, he does the same in reverse.

I am giving him the rental income from my house to live off. Sadly, since it's not a mansion and not in London that isn't loads and loads (£400) but combined with the rent from his flat (£250) it amounts to enough to live off.

Problem is there's a backlog of debts with bills and so on. Moving in with him temporarily means I can take control of this (this is no skin off my nose as obviously I'd be paying them anyway) and he can put the £650 towards paying off his overdraft.

The money I'll get from renting my flat out can be put towards refurbishment of his house.

Ultimately, there will come a time when I need that £400 back and will want to move back into my own flat which is why there's a strict 12 month limit on this situation but if I can get him to a point where he's living in a decent home, his overdraft is paid off and there aren't any outstanding debts then - well, I have done what I can.

I'd love to say there will be a happy ever after then but I doubt it. We've been going round in circles since 2009 with this!

You say he may have Aspergers or high-functioning autism, although he has never been diagnosed.

Your analogy between him and an old lady with dementia is very inaccurate. He is not disabled. He has choices. He may regard himself as a misunderstood genius, but that's not a hallucination.

And even if he is a misunderstood genius, geniuses get off their arse and do something with their lives. They don't expect other people to provide for them because they are geniuses. I think you need to get this across to your brother - and possibly the only way in which he can get it is through harsh reality.

My sil has never worked she is 28 with 2dcs.

She left school, went to uni, then cared for her ill father for a bit, then became sahm.

I don't think she will ever work. Her dh doesn't earn a lot and they have greatly subsidised by wealthy pils....

As a FT wohm I find it odd.

Your brother won't do anything simply because he knows you'll always be there to bail him out.

Suppose you want at some point to have a partner/children. How do you think your brother would react to him ceasing to be your main priority? Or would you still prioritise him over your partner/children?

Distance, I haven't said he may have autism, I've said he has got autism.

It hasn't been formally diagnosed due to a point blank refusal to engage and whenever it is mentioned his anxiety levels rocket practically to the moon.

no, he's not hallucinating, but there is a serious disassociate between the reality and the world as he sees it. Harsh reality will probably see him dead within eighteen months which is one way of solving the problem, I suppose! :)

Tough love has a fabulous record for treating autism

I don’t understand the finances in full but I think you need to stop giving him all this money every month. It is his overdraft and his bills(?) so I don’t think paying off his overdraft will actually help. It just means that he can run up another one. Ditto refurbishing his house, he will just let it decay again. I think you need to find a different way to give yourself permission to stop supporting him financially and to limit the amount of emotional support you give.

I understand that his Asperger's makes it more difficult (we have Aspies both diagnosed and undiagnosed in my family) but being given all this money to live on is helping him to maintain his fantasy version of who he is. Living the reality of having no extra income is more likely to get through to him than anything you can say.

£400 a month isn't loads of money though.

Don't get me wrong, I'd like it back but it's barely enough to scrape by.

BeyondCBA, I never uttered the phrase "tough love". But assuming that people with autistic traits are incapacitated to the extent that they are unable to understand basic facts about reality is infantilising and demeaning to people with Aspergers and functioning autism who actually manage to lead their own lives.

OP, there is a serious dissociation between him and the world he lives in partly because you allow him to maintain it. He doesn't need to work. He doesn't need help from anyone else.

I'm not saying that he doesn't need help - he clearly does. But you really can't take on the burden of supporting him to such a huge extent. And he needs to accept that he needs help. If he doesn't want it, then it's his choice. But please don't sacrifice your own life.

"infantilising and demeaning to people with Aspergers and functioning autism who actually manage to lead their own lives"

He is not managing. Which bit of OPs description implies he is managing?

Distance woah I think that's really unfair.

I'll leave the thread at that, because I know it must be utterly baffling for people to understand why a seemingly healthy adult can't work.

I've tried to explain.

It's because he sees himself as this exceptional being and remember he is trained in a profession. So he applies for jobs related to this profession and he gets interviews (remember the 'hair' thread?) sometimes and that's more expense - travelling there and then haircuts (!) and the like!

But he doesn't get these jobs. Occasionally he is offered one and this happened in September and there was over two months of faff with DBS checks and occ health reports only for the job finally to be withdrawn due to unsatisfactory references.

the awful truth is, if he did manage to get a job (he still might) it would end in six months or less. Every time this happens it makes getting the next job harder because of the reference issue.

In the meantime, will he apply for jobs that he could get, and earn some money even though it's not a fortune? No. Why? Because he's busy applying for other ones.

Like a lot,of people with autism he can't focus on more than one thing at a time. He is applying for jobs in profession X, that is what he is doing.

I meant to make a distinction between seriously autistic people - e.g. with little or no verbal skills, who do need constant care and support - and people with high-functioning autism and Aspegers, who can manage and lead fairly self-sufficient lives.

The OP's brother had a degree and belonged to a professional body, so - if he is autistic (given that there's never been a diagnosis) - he clearly is capable of being a high-functioning one. He is capable of leading a self-sufficient life, possibly with some help. He is refusing that help.

That's what I meant. He's not incapacitated.

OP, then maybe he needs to get a job that is not related to his profession.

Or else he needs to prove that he cannot hold a job for MH reasons, and get a state pension.

But you are helping him to preserve the bubble of a fantasy.