To dislike seeing young children with pierced ears.

[Singsongsungagain]

Inspired by a picture on FB today of a friend's young child (6 years old) sobbing her eyes out whilst getting her ears pierced.
Why the hell would any decent parent hold their child steady to allow their ears to be pierced? What is it all about??

My girls wanted it done at 5. I think it looks fine. Happen to like earrings on boys to. I'm about as middle class as they come.

These earring threads bring out the best of the pearl clutchers. Some of the histrionic views on here are so funny.

I was obviously a chav of the 70's

What were we chavs called then I was also living on a council estate and my mum was single and my dad was brown

Cultural traditions don't negate right and wrong or good/bad.

I don't think a person needs to be particularly intelligent to work out out that perceptions of right and wrong are strongly influenced by culture. There is a sense of cultural superiority coming through many posts, notwithstanding the reasonable argument about bodily autonomy. British culture (however that is defined) cannot be held up as a model of how others should be doing things, and neither can singsong's opinions.

Singsong - but you keep going on about their bad parenting in piercing their babies/ childrens ears. You have been socially conditioned to think like this. You are going with your social and cultural norms. You are not doing anything admirable - just going with the flow, as many of the ear piercers are from what their norms are. What would be more interesting is a mum from Spain or India choosing not to pierce as that takes thought and awareness. But you think you are a better parent than them because you didn't pierce - you're not.

Some people need to live and let live. If it doesn't impend on your life can't see what the issue is.

I'm regularly told on here to mind my own business about things that do affect me. Makes no sense.

Bambam, I'm really not going by any sense of cultural norms. I'm going by my sense of disgust at an image of a young child crying her eyes out while her ears have unnecessary holes shot into them whilst being held steady by her mother. I find that, personally, abhorrent and from the comments on this thread I am clearly not alone in that.

British culture (however that is defined) cannot be held up as a model of how others should be doing things

So you are okay with FGM then are you????

Am really sick of whiny liberals mouthing off silly things like this. Why not apply to others the standards you apply yo yourself? It's reverse racism dressed up as some sort of liberal orthodoxy. Newsflash, anything that impinges on the bodily autonomy of a person who is not able to choose for themselves, no matter how "cultural" it is, is not fucking okay, no matter how brown the person is to whom it is happening.

ffs what a stupid stupid response no one on here is ok with FGM

Not thinking the British way is always the right way does not mean you agree with every cultural practise. We are more progressive than many cultures but that does not mean we get it right all the time

Sneering at other cultural norms that are not (usually harmful) or sneering at those that we perceive to be of a lower class is very entrenched in our culture given our class system and our history of the British Empire hardly surprising but nothing really to celebrate

Brown people believe it or not are able to decide amongst themselves what is ok and what is not ok as not all customs are down to controlling women

I am Spanish. In Spain, it used to be the cultural norm that female newborns would get their ears pierced in the first days after birth - essentially, the idea was that it would hurt less than later, and in order to enable people to distinguish male babies from female babies (because culturally there is not such a strong gender difference as regards clothes, i.e. blue vs pink etc).

More people seem not to be piercing their babies' ears now, but many people still do, and hhonestly, nobody would remotely see it as something horrible. Babies' ears are pierced at the chemist's, and I have never ever heard of anyone having any problems with it. I don't think it's that painful even - the comparison with jabs seems to be right.

Singsong - well i think you are, we all often do whether we are aware or not. Can you honestly say you wouldn't have got your baby or older girls pierced if you were indian ir from a country or culture where it is normal and expected?

Bambam- "well I think you are". Oh right. You fully understand my thoughts and inner feelings despite never having met me? I see.
And again, I have absolutely no idea how I would feel about anything were I to have been born in a completely different culture/generation/gender etc etc. Me and the rest of the world then.

Singsong you are entitled to your opinion but I'm certain that many don't care whether you feel disgusted or not. Not your child so your concern is pretty pointless.

I don't care that someone would think I looked chavy and cheap as a child just find it an odd thing to say about a child

I do care that it is implied that parents who do get their children's ears pierced are in someway less caring about their children

singsong you cannot see the wood for the trees. You are spectacularly narrow minded and prejudiced.

I can see why it's important to be similar to your peers. Most of us follow trends otherwise we would be seen as odd.

It is a strange one. I'd be equally as concerned if a young person wanted it done but was not allowed due to some dislike of it by parents.

It is a difficult balance...and I try and involve my children in decisions on things like vaccination.

Just a thought with the infection point of view, a young baby has not got a mature immune system so cannot withstand infections as well as an older child.

notime I'm not being pedantic honestly, but I do like to change the question round, look from different angles, play what if?

I find I end up questioning myself on my own beliefs, which is healthy I think.

I think it also helps you understand different points of view, and become more accepting of others - because you see you own mind changing and perhaps less entrenched.

Interesting take to have there Daemon "cultural" - does this mean 'cultural' equals anyone non English/British or not of western culture to you? ...Cultural does not automatically mean non-white my dear...

'no matter how brown the person is to whom it is happening' - racist much?...obviously to you only 'brown people' pierce their children's ears and only 'brown people' do not respect the autonomy of their children?...

Women and girls have had their autonomy disregarded for centuries ...remember the Chasity belt?...how about vaccinations? some western countries give babies jabs for hepatitis as standard??..and you worry about ear piercing? Each nation and people go through their own changes and no one on this thread supports FGM so stop trying to be a controversial bigot...same kind of people always using the same empty rhetoric...lets throw in some 'liberals'.. a dash of 'reverse racism' ...I'm still waiting for the 'freedom of speech' bit...that should finish everything off neatly...

sotired

That's so true. I know some Jordanians living in the uk whose parents very much acted as a "dating agency". One of the girls turned down about 5 blokes before meeting the man who went on to become her husband.

I don't see the issue with arranged marriage, the problem is surely forced marriages.

Well considering I am actually a brown person, I must be very odd sort of racist ;) :) :)

I was just responding the liberal nonsense that "cultural" practices must be respected if they belong to brown people. It is an attitude I find a lot of white liberals apply to things done brown people. And they do do in a way they would never apply to white people. So piercing white babies' ears is not right. But piercing brown babies is okay because it is somehow cultural. That is the double stand I am pointing out. I call it the racism of low expectations.

**You are spectacularly narrow minded and prejudiced.

Er how so? Your post Buttons implies that I am missing a vital point about the inherent value of earrings on young children. Could you clarify please?

I'm no white liberal, believe me. I just don't hold up white British culture as the standard by which other cultures should be judged. There are various aspects of British culture that trouble me, just as there are aspects other cultures that I would argue against. What makes me right and others wrong? I may believe that I have more, or better arguments for my point of view, but that is the best that I can say of many cultural practices.

In some cases I may believe that the arguments are so strongly for or against a practice that the majority of people would agree with me. In those cases a society will often consider a practice 'wrong. Other societies may disagree, perhaps because of a lack of education or disenfranchisement of citizens, but perhaps because they see the world differently. I really don't think I'm saying anything controversial when I say the British way cannot be taken automatically as the best way or the only way.

Let me raise the statistics for those who say they only know one person without pierced ears- I haven't (although as I say I dabbled at 19, by 20 I dabbled no more), my mum hasn't, my sister hasn't, my sister in law hasn't, my 9 year old hasn't and doesn't want them piercing, many of my colleagues at work haven't.... I could go on here.

I think you're confused about what the word 'statistics' means

Honestly, singsong your ignorance has become some ridiculous it is now somewhat amusing me, but I don't think I'll bother attempting an intelligent debate with you anymore. There really isn't any point.

Headofthehive I get what you mean entirely and I like that you question things from every angle rather than just your own . . . like some

My comment about "statistics" was to counteract the nonsensical argument that every woman in the country obviously has pierced ears which has been bandied about by some.

Notime- you've done a startlingly good job of seeing the argument from all sides haven't you.