To dislike seeing young children with pierced ears.

[Singsongsungagain]

Inspired by a picture on FB today of a friend's young child (6 years old) sobbing her eyes out whilst getting her ears pierced.
Why the hell would any decent parent hold their child steady to allow their ears to be pierced? What is it all about??

Had my parents done done it when I was too young to decide for myself I'd be furious.

Don't you have anything else to worry about?

notime I'm with you, I can't think of anyone with un pierced ears. The only one I know is my gran who had hers done in her 50s because she wanted them. So no one

If they pierced me for vanity and (potentially) caused me to have a pretty nasty allergy, I think I'd be entitled to be bothered by it, don't you?

It's the same argument rolled out for FGM. "They're not one of us unless they go through it."

(Not equating the 2 procedures, but neither argument makes sense to me!)

My three daughters have not expressed any interest in ears being pierced. So no I don't think it's that unusual. I work with a couple who don't, no strange religion, it's perhaps not that unusual. As a teenager without pierced ears people would comment on it to me.

I suppose it depends on whether you think it's your child's decision to make or yours? I can understand why - if you feel it saves more pain etc you would make the decision for the child.

However that belief, even if done with the best of intentions, rests on the belief that it's safer at that time, and it would be done anyway. If either of these statements are untrue, then I would personally question the decision to do so.

I suppose being older you can see things change, when once upon a time things were seen as OK become less acceptable. I remember riding in the car with out seat belts, but I don't think my parents were bad, it was just what was normal then.

Thank you notime for your kind comment. I don't judge people but I do question the basis of some peoples actions. no one is foolproof though and We all do things that might be questioned, particularly with hindsight and after the passage of time.

tali well yes I'd be upset with my parents had they not believed in my right to consent or not. Telling me it's only trivial - minimising it would show me that they had little respect for me as my own person, with a right to choose what happens to me.

We've moved a lot in the last hundred years over women's rights over their bodies and I believe children shoud have the right over their bodies to say no. That means waiting until they are old enough to understand and consent.

I absolutely respect your opinion on the subject Headofthehive

However, what you said is true, my decision was based on the fact that it was safer to do at that time and that eventually it would be done anyway. Whilst you and others might think that those things are untrue, I don't. And it's my decision to make.

How do you know it would be definitely be done anyway? how certain were you at the point of having the ears done? Was it a 100 per cent cert?

What evidence do you have that it would be safer? Would it stand up to scientific scrutiny?

And of course you need to believe that it is your decision and not believe in right for people to consent for themselves.

Out of interest, if said child hadn't been done as a baby, what age would you accept her saying no? When would her right to say no, I'm presuming you do believe that she has a right to do that, kick in?

And of course when does a parents right to veto a child's desire to have that done end?

"Re cultural expectations, there are of course cultures where ear piercing is normal. This doesn't make it a good thing, or a thing to be emulated by all- it just makes it a tradition. The person I referred to in the OP is from the same cultural background as me. There are no cultural reasons for her decision."

Singsong - but you are judging anyone who pierces their babies or child's ears. Are you so sure that if you lived in a country where this was the norm or were from such a culture - that you would buck the trend, that you wouldn't feel differently about it?

Groupthink I understand it's called. And you are quite right, it's very difficult to go against your norms.
Of course because everyone does it doesn't make it right. It's uncomfortable both for the person who bucks the trend, and also for the people who are "conforming".

I think you're getting a little pedantic now Headofthehive, but I will answer your questions as best I can.

As I've said before, based upon the fact that I have only ever met ONE adult female with unpierced ears I would say I was 99.9% certain at the time of piercing that it would definitely be done anyway at some time in their life. As an estimate, I'd say probably 95% certain that they would be asking for it done as children. Again, because my that has been my life experience. All my friends at school had theirs done by the time they hit secondary school, so age 11. All of my friends who already had children in adulthood, the girls were already begging to have it done.

I'm not discounting the fact that the three of you say your experiences have been different, but I believe you are in the minority.

Now yes, given what I've written above there is a small degree of uncertainty BUT that is true of absolutely everything in life. Nothing is 100% certain.

I believe getting it done earlier is safer, purely based on the fact that an adult would be doing the after care as apposed to a child. Yes, I believe that would stand up to scientific scrutiny . . . not that it would be necessary, because that's just common sense.

I believe in an adults right to consent, but I also believe in the rights of the parent to consent on behalf of their child until they are capable of informed consent. That is a very difficult line to draw, because children will reach different levels of maturity and understanding at different times. But I also believe that a good parent knows their child best. The example of vaccinations is a good one here. Should we wait until children are capable of consenting to being stuck with a needle and injected with an unknown substance? No, of course not. The majority of us opt to consent on behalf of our children and in their best interest. We are all charged with making the best decisions that we can on behalf of our children until they reach an age where they are capable of doing so. That's our job.

If either of my children had said 'no', they didn't want it done - then they wouldn't have had it done. From as early as 1.5 my children both had excellent understanding, communication and vocabulary and were speaking in full sentences. If it had been the case that I'd had to cajole them or, heaven forbid, hold them down . . . then it wouldn't have happened. But that was not the case.

There is, for the most part, a massive and measurable benefit to vaccination for the vast majority of babies and children. The and can't be said for ear piercing (which serves no purpose other than for appearance - it most certainly can't save lives!).

I haven't time to read the whole thread. But I've seen plenty of Indian children with peiced ears, always thought it was kind of cute. If its a traditional thing its not my place to judge.

YANBU... only chavs do this.

Nutella - you obviously lead a closed parochial life then.

..wonders what a 'chav' is.....

I bet if you looked at a 100 females in their 20`s you couldnt call chav on tje ones who were young with ears piercing.
Its a small hole.

Nutella would have been running down to Claires if she had been born into an area or culture where this was the norm.

I have no idea what my perceptions on ANYTHING would be had I been born into a completely different culture Bambam. What a strange question! Cultural traditions don't negate right and wrong or good/bad. I don't agree with arranged marriage. I don't think it's a good thing and I wouldn't ever argue in favour of it- however it is a cultural tradition. Being a cultural tradition doesn't exclude anything from being judged or commented on. What a dangerous world it would be if that were the case!
Head- again I agree with your every word. Let me raise the statistics for those who say they only know one person without pierced ears- I haven't (although as I say I dabbled at 19, by 20 I dabbled no more), my mum hasn't, my sister hasn't, my sister in law hasn't, my 9 year old hasn't and doesn't want them piercing, many of my colleagues at work haven't.... I could go on here.

Putting holes in your ears is not compulsory, the desire to do so is not a given, earrings are adornment which young children have no need for.

I don't agree with arranged marriage.

Lots of arranged marriages are not as "arranged" as people think. Parents act as a kind of dating agency introducing people to their children, but the children are then free to decide whether or not they like those people.