Batshit crazy SIL and my poor mother

[Vedamakesthebesttoast]

Ok long story with lots of history and identifying circumstances which I can't detail. Brief version for background is that my brother married very badly and his wife is toxic and has over the years initiated massive rows with various family members and has gone NC with nearly everyone at some point. My mum is terrified of being cut out of her grandchildrens lives and treads on eggshells ALL THE TIME.

SIL hates my guts and for years has repeatedly fallen out with my mum for various things... Like mentioning my name in conversations, talking about my children to her, not asking me to leave her house when they've called in unexpectedly etc.... (Last time that happened she didn't speak to my mum or let her see her grandchildren for 6 months)

Before anyone asks, I'm not a devil bitch from hell, she's just a fantasist and has fabricated ishoos in her head to justify falling out with us so she can play the 'favourites' game with my mum to try to get her to choose DB and herself over us and other family members. We're talking serious ishoos here, she is in my unqualified opinion batshit crazy.

Anyway the current situation is that she fell out with my mum a month or so ago, and told her she didn't want her to contact them again. (She'd done nothing wrong, see batshit crazy up post ^) She historically goes to theirs for Christmas and we go to my ILs BUT since mum was chucked out into the snow we rearranged Christmas to have it at our house and not go to our ils, . You can guess where this is going. Turkey ordered, house decorated, food and drink all bought, looking forward to a lovely day with mum and the kids. After not a word from them in over a month, mum gets a text from SIL,asking when she'll be arriving for Christmas.

Now I love my mum to her bones and wouldn't for a second fall out with her over anything, but I just feel so bad for her. It feels to me very much like she's being manipulated, yet again... That SIL just wants to know that despite them being so awful to her she will once again drop everything and change her plans to suit them. I'm worried they've asked her for Christmas s so mum will drop everything and 'prove' to SIL that she will still drop everything and come running when they summon her, and that they don't actually want her there because they love her and want to enjoy her company. Once again I think it's all game playing and trying to force mum into choosing. SIL is a total cold fish and I've never seen her laugh btw, I don't think she knows what true love or affection is or how to ellicit it and all this stuff with my mum and trying to create divisions in the family is in some way her trying to secure a place, it's all very fucked up.

DH reckons mum's facilitating their behaviour and letting them think that mum is one of their monkeys who will dance for crumbs of affection off their table, and there is perpetuating the shitty way they treat her. I'm inclined to agree but totally understand her fear of being cut off from her grandchildren if she stands up to SIL or calls her on her shit.

Does anyone have any sensible suggestions for how I can help my mum? I've lost count of the tearful conversations she's had with me over various callings out and the awful things SIL has said to her.

Sorry for lengthy post, if youve got this far well done!

she could politely say to sil...

'oh thankyou for asking, gosh what a shame.. but actually i thought i wasnt invited anymore and so have made plans wiht my daughter and her family, but thanks anyway'

in most saccharine sweetly polite voice she can muster

to me 'standing up to' sounds confrontational and argumentative and may end in rift the OP and her DM clearly want to avoid for DM's sake, if she is polite and apologetic but honest ...she though she was not invited anymore afterall sil does not really have anywhere to go with it. best not provike an arguement which i sense is what sil would like

sorry dreadful typos

I would be devastated if I could no longer see my DGC. However I absolutely would not tolerate being treated in this way - especially by my own son, who is at best colluding or at worst a co-instigator.

I would be having it out with him and telling him that enough was enough and how did he want to proceed? (whilst assuring him that the door would always be open if he wanted to behave like a reasonable person)

jellybean that's what I suggested. But that is standing up to her. It's saying 'I will no longer dance to your tune'

No matter how nicely it's said its still taking control back and therefore standing up to her

I do agree that's what she should say though.

No need to hide why or who she will be with.

The thing is, all this is advice for the DM, but she is not asking for advice.
It is obvious that she will go to the SIL house, and the OP will as a nice person not wanting her DM to fell bad about it will not make a fuss.
And so it will go on.
My own DM is like the OP's DM, though our situation is less extreme.
I have given up suggesting that she stands up for herself, and just assume she will cancel us at the last minute, and just make our plans accordingly.

Op said 'Does anyone have any sensible suggestions for how I can help my mum?'

My advice is that she doesn't cancel on the OP.

She has plans she should stick to them.

ahhh...i get what you mean now enjolrass...standing up to just sounded all guns blazing but then again i am the most unconfrontational person and will always go for the subtle way

Your mum should stick with visiting you fro Christmas it's very rude to say the least and if I was you I'd be quite hurt if she does go running to sil.
I can understand her walking on eggshells and trying to please them but it will happen again so what's one more time of sil going no contact over it.

Your mum will probably have a much nicer Christmas with you..
Simple txt saying sorry made plans to go to dd for.christmas hope to see you soon yada yada..

ok I'm back, bedtime routine got kicked off early!
basin I'm sorry your mum hasn't seen her grandchildren in so long, how utterly horrible for her
clam I do wonder what they say about my mum I front of the children. It would break her heart if they were hearing badmouthing about her. Glad your niece has enough sense to make up her own mind
pern I think you're in pretty much the same situation by the sounds of it. Only difference is I don't think my SIL would care if I'd killed her cat, she's pretty soulless and not an animal person... It's more like I've pissed in her favourite handbag
welsh they get au pairs for childcare. This usually co in idea with them going NC with mum and then when the au pairs fall out with them and leave the all of a sudden mum is SIL bff again with no apology or acknowledgement they were horrible to her or cut her out.

I think you ought to take the vile message on the phone round to your brothers yourself and sit him down and explain that all of this shit stops right now. Sil needs to get over herself and he needs to stop allowing his mother to be so badly treated, and you being vilified for fuck all.

No, your mother should NOT drop you for the sake of these people, they can like it or lump it

She's showing she is worthless, and worse that YOU don't even figure on her list of priorities

you deserve better than this.

Veda take it from someone who knows. You may be able to see why your DM rushes off to Db/SIL in order to stop them forcing NC with her grandchildren. But your children - her other grandchildren - will always end up feeling second best. Just think if this doesn't stop that in years to come at nursery or school your children saying "my nan was going to come over for Christmas but then my aunt/uncle invited her so she went there instead".

Do you really honestly want that?

I feel bad for you in this OP. Your SIL is effectively using your mum to hurt you and your mum is letting her.

I have seen exactly this type of behaviour in somebody I know and she has managed to completely ruin her DPs relationship with his lovely family as well as ensuring his friends stay away.

Your mum really must put a stop to this shit now before it causes a rift between you and her.

And btw, I find it interesting that the DB is being branded spineless. If the genders were reversed, the SIL would be branded controlling and abusive and people would be concerned for him. She must be utter hell to live with IMO. Imagine how she probably treats him if he questions her behaviour.

Apocalypse I can't talk to my DB he doesn't answer the phone to me or respond to texts. Last conversation was maybe 3 years ago give or take and he told me to fuck off.. So I did! Left him to it, wouldn't call the SIL unless I was going to tell her exactly what I honk of her so no productive outcome to be had there really, well not for mum anyway, might make me feel better though :)
kitsnicket DB and mum would've gotten on ok in the past but he's very of standish and never been very vocal or open, not emotionally anyway. He's had a chip on his shoulder for years about various things, he's just very insecure and harbours grudges because of his inability to communicate effectively. If he's married someone balanced and lovely I honestly think everything works be grand for him. But he married someone who feeds off conflict and is aggressive and hostile so she has exacerbated his feelings of inadequacy and distanced him from mum by whispering in his ear reinforcing all of his ishoos. I don't condone his behaviour at all but since SIL is the instigator of all the arguments that's why she is the focus of my op. My brother doesn't start the arguments, he just lets her.
christmascarcass that's it exactly. I don't want to abet her, but can't see how not to at the minute without hurting her. And as for your SIL finding excuses not to be there when your mum needed care inater life, that is despicable and I'm fully prepared for that to happen in our case too.

Got to the end of your replies, sorry I had split my responses as I'm on the phone was was scrolling through pages.

Thank you everyone for taking the time, it's made me feel better just getting it off my chest and the fact that you've all pretty much said the same thing, SIL unreasonable, mums being taken for a mug etc makes me think I am fairly normal and not the steaming lump of hell turd SIL thinks I am!

My main concern now is how my children will feel in a couple of years if this continues and they ever find themselves dropped in preference (not the right word but you know what I mean) for sil. I'll have a gene chat with mum about it tomorrow when she's here for coffee.

Thanks again, and happy Christmas [santa]

These situations are ghastly and when someone behaves as badly as the SIL here, it is incredibly hard to deal with. When someone is being unreasonable, reasonable behaviour in return leads to you either being treated like dirt or to a falling out.

In this situation, the OP's poor mum is between a rock and a hard place, but in dancing to SIL's tune, she is hurting the OP and the OP's family. You have to call time on people like the SIL sooner or later or they just go on pissing you about. (We called time on my SIL: oh, the blessed relief!)

I think the earlier suggestions of the ever-so-polite 'Thanks for your lovely invite, but I really can't as I'm committed to seeing OP and family on Xmas day... Would love you to come round on the Y so I can give the DC their presents...' variety is the way forward.

to OP. Batshit relatives are bloody purgatory when they're on the rampage.

Veda it's hard, isn't it? I was a bit luckier as it was my MiL and all I had to do was just to follow DH's lead, I didn't really have to confront SiL or MiL myself. Most of it was just DH saying "Mother, we're not talking about this with you" when she started to complain or asked him to intervene with his DB, and refusing to reschedule holidays, dinners, or parties when SiL coincidentally invariably scheduled something or needed childcare at the same time. On one hand I felt kind of bad about it, but on the other I wasn't going to live my life pandering to SiL via our MiL.

I guess all you can do is live your own life and if MiL chooses SiL, just shrug and say 'Your choice, we'll miss you'.

We had similar with SIL and her dp. Both we and ILs called time though ILs very hurt and relunctant to do so on their behaviour and lol and behold now they're coming to ILs for Boxing Day. Can't stand tossy behaviour by manipulative rellies attention seeking and controlling

Oh meant to mention that in the end MiL was much closer to my sons than her granddaughter by DB/SiL, and I think it was the repeated NC/you're back in our lives that did it. My children were a constant to her whilst DGD was in and out of her life depending on her mother's whims.

My sons never felt slighted, we took care of that. We never said "Oh granny's not coming because she's with your cousin" and they never took things that way. If you don't point it out to them, they'll probably never notice it. But again, DN was 7 years older than my DS1 so probably by the time he or DS2 would have noticed it, DN was a teen and off doing her own thing. It also helped that my sons also had their other grandparents (my folks) in their lives.

Your children being upset in the future is the lesser evil, imo, not that that isn't bad enough, of course it is. What I would be worrying about would be them picking up that this sort of behaviour gets you what you want, and then emulating it.

MizK I had a similar thought to you (I did mention it at the start of the thread). The SIL answering the brother's texts sounds like very controlling behaviour to me and I wonder if he is scared of her, which would be worrying.

Sorry Monty I might have been skimming a little - the text thing is so odd isn't it? I couldn't live like that.

Ah I'm a bit of a skin reader too MizK so no worries there!

The text thing is very weird to me.

*skim obviously, not skin. Shut up autocorrect you jackass!

How old are the other DGCs? Are they of an age where your DM can reassure them that she will always love them but that their parents don't want her to see them? That way there is an opening in the future for a relationship, when they're of an age to see her independently.

It's the only way I can think of to stand up for herself but also have a relationship with the DGCs at some point.

We had a similar situation with SIL for over 20 years. She has a very nasty temper and had gone NC with her own family years ago. She ran my parents in law ragged, put huge pressure on them to take her side in any disagreements between her and her husband (their son). PILs walked on eggshells for several decades with her and she elevated herself to head of the family, deciding what would happen with joint family property and bringing her filthy moods and opinions with her. My DH and I kept out of it, until she suddenly turned on us over a business matter that she had decided she should have a say in.

We were horrified when both PILs and BIL bent over backwards to appease this nutcase, even though it was a matter that was entirely to do with mine and DHs business and had absolutely nothing to do with her. We went NC with her immediately, ignored the shit she threw around and deleted the revolting texts I was sent. MIL received the brunt of the abuse and tried to appease for months, and eventually PIL shouted at SIL resulting in her storming out and going NC. It has taken several years for PILs to get over the revolting treatment they suffered from SIL - they are both in their nineties now and in poor health, but NC has taken away the terrible bullying they suffered at her hands.

Good luck to your mother OP, I hope she has the strength to stand up to your SIL and say enough is enough.