AIBU to think Mothers should be honest about birth?

[TheHouseOnTheLane]

To other women who've not gone through it yet? There's so much

"Oh it's different for everyone"

And shilly shallying about around the subject.

I guess a tiny minority DO have "easy" or even pleasant experiences of birth but all the women I know were traumatized and horrified and in agony.

This was inspired by another thread. Sorry if I'm offending anyone as I know it's an emotive subject.

But my own experience was that dreadful I don't think I COULD lie if another woman asked me directly. Yet some people seem to be all coy about this fact.

I find it very difficult, had a placental abruption at 34 weeks that nearly killed us both. I had never heard of this prior to it happening to me and never want to scare people by telling them about it. I tend to gloss over by saying she was early and spent some time in nicu but miss out the waking up to a blood bath, seeing her being resuscitated and waking up in itu with no idea if she was alive.

I think generally people aren't honest either for personal reasons or in a bid to protect/ not scare people.

so its OK for first timers to be fed the NCT lie, and think as long as they can get that sex hormone going with some massage and candles, that their bodies are amazing and perfect and designed to birth babies and women have been doing it since year dot, yours will too. Just make sure you relax and trust your amazing body?

Then they get into labour and actually its horrific, they come out and blame themselves because unlike all these other amazing mothers, their body apparently wasn't up to it, their body failed them? They didn't do something right?

duchess thats really poor judgement from your dm I can only imagine she has trauma from your birth and has never got over it. Maybe the birth trauma ass can help her?

You see I was different, my DM didnt say much at all, and certainly no gory details - for me, it was what she didnt say that scared me.

I had a section on the NHS maternal request and I shall be encouraging my girls to have one too.

I'm always honest about my birth experience. But that means I'm one of the annoying women who tell you it is fabulous and enjoyable. Because for me it was. So it would not be honest if I said otherwise.

Anyway, I always found that only the negative stories tend to be told. Certainly I heard almost no positive stories before I actually gave birth.

I think it would be helpful to warn first timers that they won't know what it will be like for them until they get to it, and to keep an open mind on options, but I'd also avoid too many gory details.

See you can't win with this one. I was fed the 'NCT Lie' as I did the course. But for me it wasn't a lie.

I had my first baby at home, 5 hour labour, no pain relief, a tiny tear and in a birth pool too! I felt the most relaxed I have ever felt in my life. I just went with it. I amazed myself and am very proud of myself too, but it is very seldom that I would voice that as I fear being labelled as smug.

But all I can ever tell is my personal experience of child birth. I don't have any other point of reference.

So when my sister got pregnant, I only had my positive experience to tell her about. As it turns out she had a horrific birth. Baby was massive ( my sister is tiny) and was back to back. My sister ended up in ICU and had to have several blood transfusions. She tore terribly too. I sincerely wish that she had had the same experience as me. But it was not to be and through no fault of her own, it was the sheet physicality of the situation.

I would never try and scare a pregnant woman about birth, thats just mean. But bad things do happen and good things happen too. You'll never know how it will be until you are doing it.

surely the reality is there is nothing you can do to prevent a traumatic birth, so why make other women worry about it?
because they were in the dark as to how awful it can be.

they had no idea and they blame themselves.

the whole attitude and physic needs to change.

women made to feel bad because they had a nasty experience, because they want drugs or interventions or even ELC like its the worse thing that can happen!!

you dont need gory details but without a doubt - in general we need more honesty.

Worst experience of my life
I genuinely thought I was dying
I was screaming , crying hysterically throwing myself around
Lost loads of blood , cracked a rib and damaged my bladder and couldn't wee for 3 days so had a catheter ( that was the scariest being worried I'd never be able to wee properly again )
Struggled to bond with DS (and still am to this day)
Never again

toria your experience is wonderful and as important to hear as the ones that arnt.

dont make women feel even worse for talking about their awful experiences.

shoved in the corner nodding scared to speak for fear of frightening women.

maxxy you dont have to go through it again you can request eldc

There are a million places it is appropriate and helpful to talk about a traumatic birth.

I think the majority of the thread is saying that terrifying a pregnant woman who has to go through labour soon is not an appropriate audience for a horrific birth story, not that it should be a huge secret only a chosen few know.

The honest truth is (IMO) that without some pain relief it will hurt like hell. And for me, no it is not the NCT wonderful pain, it is pain for which in any other circurmstances you are automatically given anaesthesia, and not made to feel second rate for asking for it.

Anything the NCT says should be taken with a large tub of salt.

ZeVite I had a terrible pregnancy too , hyperemisis right from beginning to end ? The whole experience was literally traumatising

I would never want women to be silenced for fear or frightening other women, I didn't mean that at all. Its important that they talk about their experiences in order to help recover and heal.

Having said that, some people can relish telling the gory details of birth, not necessarily even their own, to frighten women. Not nice but I have witnessed it myself. I know I was told a few horror stories when I was pregnant, the story teller having a gossipy glint in their eye!

One of my friends had a not ideal birth and was very honest about it, she was very matter of fact, but also very upset and said that she wanted the chance to do it again 'properly'. She didn't scare me, as it was her experience and I had no idea what mine was going to be like.

Toria that sounds a wonderful experience and you tell the tale of it very nicely and matter-of-factly.

I think that is sometimes the issue with the 'smug' thing - the matter of tone. Obviously there should be absolutely NOTHING wrong (and everything right) with a woman saying, 'you know what, it was a good/wonderful/fine experience for me, no pain relief, no tearing etc... that's just the way it was for me and I know it's not that way for everyone. I wish it were.'

I think (or suspect?) that the 'attitude' that upsets people/makes them feel like failures is an entirely different tone which IS either smug - 'it was so easy, I did everything brilliantly, I don't know what people are making a fuss about' - or alternatively a kind of hectoring, "You MUST do hypnobirthing/yoga/listen to whale music, you won't need any of that dastardly pain relief if you just think beautiful thoughts..."

I think it's absolutely wonderful if other women feel able to say they had a good birth experience as that sort of thing can only help.

I've only met one woman in RL who managed to tell me about her good birth experience in a lovely, positive, non-hectoring way. I've met quite a few more of the smug/hectoring variety.

I thinkk if we all just accepted that our bodies and our babies are all different, and thank GOD for modern medicine that can save women's and baies lives and - heaven forfend - even make the experience less painful/chaotic for them, we would all be able to get on with giving birth however we are best able.

I also think, sadly, that the age-old refrain that it isn't a contest and that there are NO MEDALS for giving birth however the hell you end up doing it... isn't getting through.

I fudge the truth (OK, I lie) about my ELCS because I don't want to tell most people in RL that I was so phobic about vaginal birth that I just couldn't countenance it... silly labels like 'too posh to push' are bandied around which are frankly just another way to demean women and make them feel like they should put up with whatever Mother Nature can throw at them. Thank God it's the 21st century in a 1st world country and we do have choices about many aspects of this.

I think yabu.

Firstly I had two straight forward births, I look back on them with fondness, quick recovery, I don't always feel able to say much about it because I might come across as smug.

So I've no horror story.

Even if you do I see no point in frightening women, you can almost always put a positive spin on anything so the best thing to do is offer them advice on things they can do to prepare.

I think an womans birth journey is unique to each individual. My first was ventuose in the end and it was induced labour, i ended up with stiches. Very painful. Second labour was natural,pain relief managed no stiches were required. I felt on top of the world,full of energy. Each birth was completely different to one another so i dont think its necessarily helpful in sharing horror stories when people manage in their own ways.

I agree and yes it is painful but the reason for not having pain relief is not so that you can be a brave soldier it's because pain relief can cause complications.

I had pethadine with my first and felt horrible and groggy, g&a made me sick. I had none with second and recovered better.

YABU, how do you know it's a "tiny minority" who have ok births??

I've had two straightforward easy births (2nd was a home birth, which I hand on heart enjoyed), ditto my sister, several friends had calm home births. I only know one woman who says she had really bad experiences with her births (but I don't know all the details).

I find the "birth is horrific" rhetoric as annoying as you find the "it's different for everyone" line of thought to be. No, it's not horrific for everyone. But as pp have said, those who have had lovely birth experiences often feel they can only discuss it if they know the person they are talking to has had the same, for fear of being thought of as smug, which is sad.

For her next birthday after I had dd1 I bought my mother a book called "it doesn't hurt that much... And other lies my mother told me" Which amused me. After being told what easy labours she had had and how I was bound to have it easy too. If she had made it into the delivery suite she would have caught the sharp end of my tongue. Then later she is talking about the doctor that stitched her up afterwards... So probably not as easy as she had led me to understand l guess.

Duchess I had an ELCS for similar reasons. My mum nearly died giving birth and I knew about it, as a result I was terrified of VB.

Bloody glad I did as I would have needed an EMCS and the outcome would have been worse. I don't think my mum was trying to scare me I view it as her preparing me and I'm very glad she did.

I talk about my ELCS, at first I didn't but now I think fuck it. My birth choice is just as valid as anyone else's. Hope yours went well! I enjoyed it until DS needed NICU

Tali, mine was pretty fab too tbh. I mean, as fab as major abdominal surgery can be... Totally calm, controlled, stress-free, and it meant that I could enjoy 9 months of being pregnant without being sick with terror every waking moment.

It's odd because I now know there are plenty of women who had an absolute morbid terror of needing a CS in the same way I had a morbid terror of vaginal birth, which is another proof of the fact that we are all different and what is a good outcome for one woman isn't for another.

My first labour was terrible. I tell anyone quite matter of factly about it. I don't know any pregnant women, but i doubt it would stop me if they asked. I have told women who haven't had children yet. People told me their tales pre children and during pregnancy, it never really worried me. I certainly didn't think anything they said would happen to me. I was convinced i was going to have a breeze of a labour. But it wasn't that bad, because i got DS1 at the end. And oddly, i still enjoyed the experience of seeing him come out.

What i am pissed off about is the fear mongering about c-section recoveries and physical trauma and the total glossing over the emotional terror. After my first labour i had 3rd degree tearing and was double incontinent for a while. I was in agony and still have pain and scar tissue. But despite all this all the healthcare professionals told me i was still better off having not had a section. That a section was way way worse. It really terrified me (altho i had 2 friends from nct who had sections who seemed fine way before i was) and then when i was expecting ds2 i was told i'd need a section. I was really scared. I didn't sleep well for weeks before it. When i had it i was walking around 4-6 hours later, showering and going to the loo. I felt fine. The wound soreness was hardly noticeable compared to the 98 stitches i had had in my nethers! I was really angry that everyone had peddled this bullshit, they had minimised my pain from my first birth by making me think others had it way worse.

However, emotionally i was terrified throughout the entire section experience. I was convinced i was going to die (i never felt that in my first birth). I nearly wet myself with fear and could hardly walk into the theatre. It felt very medicalised and something inside me decided i just wasn't going to get out alive. But despite this everyone kept laughing and saying 'aaahh you'll be fine' and not addressing my real fear. I felt totally alone and like no one was taking me seriously - which i was, and they weren't.

My experiences weren't the best. Unfortunately I didn't follow the family pattern of quick simple births, so my vision of hypnobirthing out a baby relatively easily went completely to pieces. I was traumatised by the first birth because I was so exhausted and taken by surprise by the delivery (Long labour, stuck back to back baby with large knobbly head, symptoms of pre-eclampsia, EMCS, bad reaction to pethadine, visits to HDU and neonatal).

Second birth was better. The actual labour was much better. Being considerably shorter helped as being more fresh helped me hypnobirth with the contractions until a last minute panic and trip to theatre when monitoring went ropey. At that point it was either a shit EMCS or shit forceps due to baby's position (another back to back). I got the shit forceps which was more painful in recovery than the CS, but had the advantage of keeping more strength. A more assertive birthplan did help, and I was in better mental state after that birth. It did help shift some of the baggage from the first time.

All women can do is be honest about the experience they have. I wish I could share something more fluffy but that wasn't the experience I had. I've never intended to horrify anyone. I don't embellish it.any parts of both births were fine. I think if it was possible to more debriefing of difficult births as standard, that would be helpful in dealing with baggage and reducing the role of birth in postnatal mental health difficulties.

As with many stigmas and taboo subjects, keeping experiences quiet is often more harmful than helpful.

Ha x-post Duchess. We are alldifferent indeed.

I would like a third but i will probably need a section again and i have to decide whether i can face another. Despite it all being fine. I just feel so terrified of it.

I haven't had time to rtft but i have had one horrid birth (ending up in ITU) and one easy as pie birth. The best thing you can say to a pregnant first timer is that their birth plan should be 'leave hospital healthy with a healthy baby' and that is it! It might be nice to give birth in water, without pain relief/forceps/operations etc but that is not the end goal!!! I think people need to keep the objective in mind and forget about how to give birth because at the end of the day the labour means nothing, as long as the baby comes out safely. Doctors, nurses and midwives have trained for years listen to them and get your baby home