Halal meat

[FairyFluffbum]

This is not supposed to cause conflict but I am genuinely confused as to why it's controversial anymore?

People keep talking about how it's cruel but I know in this country all animals have to be stunned in order to be killed whether they are halal or not.

So what am I missing? Why do people keep boycotting it?

I'm Glad I'm a veggie

You're probably right Bluesmarties, religion, the cause of a lot of the worlds troubles.

Kosher is just as bad but you don't see the Jewish community forcing It to become mainstream. All lamb imported from New Zealand is Halal because of pressure from the Muslim community. Why isn't it all kosher then?
Why is all meat turning Halal not kosher?

Purplehazed there's been an awful lot of issues in Ireland because the intolerance of Catholics.
All religions cause problems because they are made up of people and people can be difficult.

I agree with Blue's sentiment. People have been carrying out incantations and peddling that their gods require certain ways of doing things since time immemorial with many gods and religions. Goodness, once human beings were sacrificed as a requirement of deities/idols according to their adherents. Maybe in a way some still are as murder by stoning is mandated by the Abrahamic deity for certain things like adultery.

Incantations and mumbo-jumbo don't cause pain. They aren't the important part. What is important is that extra suffering should not be inflicted on sentient animals needlessly because of the 'requirements' of a religion. Some have said that the animal is stunned (in this country anyway), but less so than an animal not killed according to this religious practice. The meat industry itself should to be run as humanely as possible. You hear dreadful stories about general brutality around abattoirs and stunning not working for all animals. Also the conditions of animals in general with low or absent welfare standards and intensive farming. Dairy industry as well. Animals should be killed with the least suffering as possible. That should be the only diktat in force. In fact the whole sector should be tightened and animal welfare improved as much as possible, never mind trying to justify lowering the bar.

There are a lot of people saying that people who don't want to eat meat killed in this religious way are being unreasonable (at best) and trying to smear and dismiss objections as Islamophobic. I think people are entitled to not eat meat killed like this if they don't want to. And certainly not unwittingly, with food labels omitting to show it is killed according to a halal method.

Would people actively choosing halal meat be similarly unreasonable to object if an additional incantation to another deity/idol was also said over the animal being killed? Say, a nice little prayer to Ahura Mazda/Ganesh/Ron L Hubbard accompanying the prayer to the Muslim deity. If they objected, that would be just as racist, and many things 'phobic'. Those other prayers are just words too! Importantly, to correspond, these other dedications would not shown on the label.

It is bizarre how people not wanting to unwittingly eat meat killed with incantations and a lower welfare standards mandate are the ones being called iffy and seem to have to justify themselves.

Religion as a life philosophy is fine and dandy when it drives you to be the best human being you can be and live 'the good life. When you claim your 'deity/idol' demands you interfere with others and cause suffering, it should be curtailed as it ends up being Fascistic and is just another malign ideology. No story should be indulged to that level.

itsbetter I totally agree, but thank goodness Ireland is moving on. I still say Islam is a hell of a lot more intolerant though. Without a doubt.

Itsbetter, I live in Ireland and we've had and continue to have our issues with the lingering influence of the Catholic church. But please. Today I was in Dublin city centre and saw two handsome young men holding hands. I saw men and women on the streets together, mixing freely, drinking and eating in bars and restaurants. Have you been to many Muslim majority countries? Even the supposedly secular ones are sliding backwards; my Turkish friend living in Germany always planned to retire there-she told me recently that with Erdogan and his Islamist pals, she fears it'll be like Iran by then so no. Have some perspective, we've come a long way.

As someone who grew up in theocratic Ireland in the 70s/80s, I'm probably far less tolerant of Islam than a British person my age who takes secular values for granted. I know what repressive ignorant misogynistic shite I'm dealing with thanks.

Having said all that, I really wish it was easy to buy meat you could be assured had been raised with good high welfare standards and killed as humanely as possible. And dairy. Just organic isn't enough.

I think that Booyaka and BlueSmarties have talked real sense on this thread.

I am very tired of the lazy thinking that shuts down all discussion with accusations of 'thinly veiled Islamophobia'.

I agree, it isn't in any way being phobic about Islam to say it how it is. I'm a catholic, I don't take offence when people criticise it. I don't accuse them of being phobic against Catholics. Nor should anyone call someone Islamaphobic for criticising Islam.

New Zealand lamb is halal because they are the biggest supplier of lamb to the Middle East, not because of muslim pressure groups.

Buying British raised and killed meat will ensure the welfare is really good as long as it's been stunned. We have the best welfare standards in the world, but the meat is more expensive. Buy local and from a butcher so you know the origin of the meat. Even better get it from a farmer. If we all asked for this then standards would improve. There are schemes like RSPCA which monitor welfare. Lobby your MP to ban religious slaughter, or at least label it for consumers.

What a load of tosh 0phelia I don't know any Muslims trying to push Halal meat to be mainstream. Stop chatting shit.

My point is you spouted halal meat is this that and the other yet kosher is the same.

Just what LEM said earlier, BritainFirst disguised and all that...

It's probably not Muslims pushing for it. Unlabelled halal is no good for them because they can't eat it. Which is why the current situation is so stupid, it denies Muslims choice by not allowing them to know that they can eat the unlabelled meat, whilst also denying choice to people who don't want to eat it. So everybody loses. Except for the kind of tits who just trot out 'Britain First' and 'raaaaaacists' every time anybody suggests that any accommodation should be made for anyone other than a Muslim. But I don't suppose they think that deeply about it when their knee jerk response is to trot out a few stock phrases.

You're eating a dead animal. You have zero moral high ground to stand on about how it was killed.

And I'm not a vegetarian, btw.

I ignore Andrewofgg posts, he said on a previous thread he put his neighbours dog into a hold-all and drove it out to the countryside where he released it. I wonder if it got rescued or died of starvation/hit by a car crawled off to die.

Possibly not interested in animal rights.

Fluffy, are you fucking kidding me?!?

i dont buy halal meat personally because i think it is dry and tasteless.
I think if you buy value chickens which are kept in the dark living in their own mess it isnt any better than halal.
I only buy cornfeed/organic chicken.
I dont eat pork because it is the cruelest meat you can eat.
I only eat lamb on occasions like xmas and beef.
Halal is really no different from cheap meat.

wholefoods sells halal meat, it tastes pretty great. I only buy Kosher if I have to--for me Kosher meat is more expensive than Halal and non halal. Halal and non halal meat seem to be comparable in price.

I generally look for the best quality meat and the lowest price and buy from supermarkets that pride themselves (or at least their PR has me believe) they care about the animals welfare. Admittedly, I feel I buy from Wholefoods because I believe that they are ethical. Even if their prices aren't ethical towards their customers.

KoalaDownUnder "Fluffy, are you fucking kidding me?!?"

Sadly, it's true, look here and scroll down to the post at Fri 20-Nov-15 19:38:53. What a disgusting, criminal thing to have done.

For a different perspective: one of the conditions is the slaugther man has to be a Muslim, therefore when a government body such as the NHS or local council stipulate meat must be halal, they are discriminating against 97% of the population.

Nowhere else would this be accepted, no council would say they will only purchase meat handled by Christians

Gruntfuttock, I am in complete shock that he did that, and then posted about it with no remorse.

What a truly repulsive person.

KoalaDownUnder yes, really chilling. I will remember that ever time I see his name.

every, not ever ^^

Fluffy , Grunt , Koala

I read the thread where Andrew said that.

I'm going to be very generous to him and say that he did mention later on the thread in response to another poster that he was a terrible person at the time but that it was 45 years ago. He does have a point - for all we know he could 45yrs later be a committed animal rights activist......

.... Though tbh I very much doubt it, and it was still an unusually terrible and disgusting thing to do!!