Halal meat

[FairyFluffbum]

This is not supposed to cause conflict but I am genuinely confused as to why it's controversial anymore?

People keep talking about how it's cruel but I know in this country all animals have to be stunned in order to be killed whether they are halal or not.

So what am I missing? Why do people keep boycotting it?

Oh dear. Why do people object to halal meat on religious grounds. If you are not a Muslim what does it matter - if you are a Christian there are no requirements on how the animals should be killed so why give a rats arse about what process it underwent.

Sorry, but it strikes of thinly veiled islamiphobia to me.

If you eat meat, it is cruel - you are killing another creature for food. Dress it up by making yourself feel better if it was stunned first if you like. That animal still died for you to munch on it. And I say that as a meat eater.

The objection to meat with religious connections - and the bullshit stories that circulate about religious meat being snuck in to supermarkets etc - are just bigotry in a fancy 'look at me I care about the animals I eat' dress. I'm a fierce atheist, and it still pisses me off how much hatred runs as a firm undercurrent with things like this. The only real difference is someone said a few words before the animal was slaughtered. If you believe in the importance of those words then it works for you, and if you don't, does it really change the meal you'll create with it?

Not stunned. Throat cut, hung up to bleed to death. This is why it is cruel.

varya either way its killed, have you seen an animal kid, I did as a child. The uk used to allow people to buy live poultry and slaughter it in their garden in the 80s, now I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be allowed, after the bird flu problem and other diseases.

Killing is not pretty, do you think stunning or electric bolts or boiling water are humane methods too?, I find it laughable. if you really care about the cruelty aspect do not consume meat.

Throat cut and bled to death is how most meat is prepared. Do you really think being stunned stops that from being awful?

Andrewfogg

I don't understand your logic at all! why do you think animals don't have rights? Is it because the idea of 'rights' is a human construct? Or because humans are special?

I disagree that ALL human rights take precedence over ALL animal rights, (if that's what you're saying?) I do not think for example that it's acceptable to cause the extinction of a species so that an obscure variety of leather handbag can be made in order to preserve the right of women to have a fashionable handbag. Would you disagree?

If you disagree you need to be aware of just what company you are keeping, and it's not good. And what company is that?! I'm not even sure what you mean??
Protecting religious freedoms is fine with me, UP UNTIL the point where the freedom in question would cause harm.

Halal meat is not always stunned. I don't think religion should trump animal welfare laws. Stunning prevents suffering. All animals are bled to death when slaughtered but stunning prevents animals being aware of this. This is especially important in cattle where the circle of willis maintains the blood supply to the brain for many minutes after a carotid cut. I have seen many different abattoirs during my training and animals do not suffer during slaughter in this country if they are stunned first. I would never knowingly eat halal or kosher meat because that animal would have suffered. I think as a consumer I have the right to know.

Ohbehave1 who on the thread objected on religious grounds?

Do you mean during the part of the discussion on labelling / fear over Halal meat in schools?

Just to enlighten a few of you stunning renders the animal senseless without them being aware of the process, unlike cutting their throat which they are very much aware of. I am a little concerned people are stating in this thread that stunning doesn't do anything...stunning most definitely does prevent suffering and it the law in the UK... Unless as someone aptly put it... You believe in imaginary friends!

Not just Halal, Kosher too!!!!*

Boiling water is not a stun method. It's used to remove feathers on birds and hairs on pigs AFTER death

Kosher is never stunned, some halal is some isn't

BlueSmarties76 We as humans have a proper interest in preserving biodiversity (although we made the smallpox virus extinct, didn't we?) which justifies limiting the use we make of other species; there is no such interest at work here.

What company are you keeping? The company of anti-Semites and Islamophobes; the company of all who want to make minorities "different" and insecure.

Andrew are you saying that curtailing religious freedom is valid in cases where doing so has a larger benefit to the human race (as in the case of preserving biodiversity?). Why do you think animals don't have rights? Is it because the idea of 'rights' is a human idea or because humans are 'special'?

There are a lot of racist / anti Islamic / anti Semitic / other varieties of unsavoury people who of course would use any excuse to curtail the rights of minorities, but the fact that they will jump on this and use it to promote their own cause should not mean that other reasonable non racist people should not hold this viewpoint for totally different reasons! If you suddenly found some awful racists held a view in common with you, would you change your stance? I doubt it. I know that I am not a racist / xenophobe / anti minorities. I know that my views stem from an anti oppression, anti-suffering, anti-violence, anti-sexist standpoint.....

Incidentally, I believe more or less all religions (including Christianity and especially Catholicism and the fundamentalist Christian religions) are to a greater or lesser extent oppressive, sexist, divisive and cause suffering. As I said before, religious freedom is fine UNTIL it causes problems for others, hence I'd not really say I was anti-religion per se, just anti the above problems.

Also, I wonder if you've made the assumption that I'm a white British Islamaphobe? I hope not!

bluesmartie are you saying Catholicism is more oppressive and sexist than Islam?

purple

Generally speaking, no, I'm not. I was just highlighting it as one of the more oppressive forms of Christianity.

But as we are talking about it, it is hard to generalise as there are many forms of Catholicism and Islam ranging from the fairly watered down to the extreme, so I could say that there are massive branches of Catholicism in Africa for example which are far more extreme and oppressive than 'average' Islam. (Such as those which are anti condoms in high AIDS areas, advocate putting homosexuals to death etc).

Why, what's your view?

Well on the whole I think Islam is a very oppressive religion, especially towards women. Intolerance of homosexuality is another major issue.

purple

Agreed.
What do you think of various branches of Christianity?

My point was that I find Islam to be much more intolerant than Catholisism. My views on various branches of Christianity aren't relevant to the point.

Purplehazed have you been to Ireland?

Yes, many many times. Your point?

Purplehazed that's fair enough, though as I said above, I think ther are massive variations between types of Islam and Catholicism.

I don't really care very much about the details of "X religion is homophobic whereas Y religion is not homophobic but is sexist so that makes one worse than the other".

My point was that to my knowledge all religions are to a greater or lesser extent and for different reasons harmful to certain sections of society so are not a good thing.... So they're all horrid. Just different flavours of horrid.

Halal is where the animal is slowly bled to death while hung upside down with it's throat slit.

Proper halal is unstunned but "Western" halal is stunned.

It is by far the cruelest way to murder an animal. Hence all the outcry.

*Slowly bled to death while hung upside down while still conscious and a Muslim shouts "prayers" over the dying animal.

What about kosher 0phelia?