Feeling black vs feeling female

[CherryPicking]

Rachel Dolezal caused huge offence by claiming to be of African American descent. Not questioning why that's offensive, but if she sincerely identifies with black culture more than her own, how is she different from a man who 'feels' female? Why should the second example be less offensive to members of the oppressed group in question? Not saying I'm in any way offended by men who 'feel' female or identify as trans but just wondering why I'm more accepting of that then I would be someone like RD? Is it social conditioning or is there another reason?

On the topic of dresses, i saw a dog in a santa dress last week. Very sweet they looked too.

brilliant post mamadoc 100% agree with all of it!

@Pangurban: Careful there! You don't want to be transphobic against a trans-santa who happens to look like a dog, do you?

I guess the thing that stands out for me, comparison-wise is that I've heard complaints of 'female privilege' from mtf people who complain that you can't get a job after transition without 'outing' yourself to both your current and previous employer because your name and gender have changed. It's about being female entirely and always having been female, that leads me to draw comparisons with RD.

Obsidian And that lesbians who refuse to have sex with them are transphobic

Is that philosophy for real? There are trans women with dicks who think lesbians who don't want to have a penis inside them are transphobic? WTF?

Is it really wrong to have a sexual response to the thought of your own genitalia meeting another of a specific type? Maybe I don't think on a high enough plane?

And "cisbian" - how derogatory.

Pangurban I have qualified that I was using terminology that isn't routine (I am fairly new to this debate). I do solemnly promise from this time forward to use male/female to refer to sex and man/woman/masculine/feminine to refer to gender

Vestal, puts into mind the old joke.

Three men and a dog were sitting at a table playing poker. The stakes were high and the onlooker was amazed to see Rover win two hands in a row. “That’s incredible,” the onlooker said, “I’ve never seen such a smart dog before.” “He ain’t that smart,”whispered one of the players, “Whenever he gets a good hand, he wags his tail.”

If the dog wearing the Santa dress wagged their tail, would that be a Santa tail or a woman's tail they were wagging? Which would take precedence because of their attire? The power of clothes to denote you gender identity and all.

Gosh, maid, wasn't having a go. Was just ranting expressing my own thoughts. Probably most certainly lots of incorrect usages in my own posts.

Maid - have a look at the link I posted. There really, really are people who think that way

have a look at the link I posted

I did. I'm just checking it's not a hideous joke or parody.

Gosh, maid, wasn't having a go
Nor was I

maid I'm afraid it's absolutely true - it's known as the "cotton ceiling" - the cotton being lesbians' underwear which needs to be broken through to enable male bodied Transwomen to have sex with them. Rapey enough?

I read a blog by a poor young lesbian who had vowed not to have sex again until she had worked through her transphobia, and I just felt so sad for her.

Every time I see "cotton ceiling" it makes me think of rape. It's a horrible term. Not meaning that badly to you Hermione but to those who see it as a real 'issue'.

Don't know why issue is in ''

Well, "cotton ceiling" is an issue, isn't it? The fact that some dude would be entitled enough to think him not getting to rape have sex with lesbians is the same as the glass ceiling ... that's an issue.

I mean those who think they're entitled to have sex with lesbians.. Those are the ones I think badly of, I don't think badly of Hermione for using it is what I was trying to say.

I found "cotton ceiling" a very rapey analogy as well. Beyond creepy.

www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/dec/13/rachel-dolezal-i-wasnt-identifying-as-black-to-upset-people-i-was-being-me

Above article from the Guardian two days ago.
What offends me the most about the whole sorry affair is the fact that the court case against her white brother for molesting their black younger adopted sister has been dropped. Why? Because Rachel was going testify in court. The timing of her parents' involvement in unveiling her and hence making her an unreliable witness/no longer credible, is highly bloody convenient.

As for the trans debate, Transparent season 2 is out on amazon prime and up for awards again. Anyone else binge-watched it yet and how do you think they dealt with issues of not going for surgery, need for women's spaces etc I like the show very much as a drama. It shows all its characters' complexities and flaws and that nothing is ever really black-white.

I can't understand how anyone can't see the similarities. Women/TERFs whomever aren't fighting to get men out of dresses or assaulting them. I would go to the barricades for anyone to wear what they like and be safe.

It's when the lie that someone with a penis, socialised male and so on is either; accessing space/opportunities that women have BECAUSE of their oppression; wants to tell lesbians they have to sleep with them or are 'phobic'; wants to define 'women' or anything about 'women' (FGM, pregnancy, sexism, periods etc.). That's the issue.

Rape crisis centres, female prisons and DV shelters are no place for a penis. Unless those places are male or unisex.

Don't want to de-rail the thread but this is the first I have encountered the "cotton ceiling" theory and wonder does this mean that transactivists would assert that there is no such thing as "sexuality" - and that to say you are a lesbian or a cis hetero man is not only transphobic but also misandrist, that a gay man or cis hetero woman is merely misogynist? Fascinated? This thread has really got me thinking.

No, I think it's more that lesbians ate attracted to women, and in trans dogma a transwoman is a woman. Regardless of her physical body. So it's transphobic for a lesbian to refuse to have sex with someone who identifies as a woman. Apparently.

Is the narrative also targetted at hetero males, who should also (in theory) shag any woman, whether she has a dick or not?

Or are hetero males not a vulnerable enough group to shout down?

A disproportionate number of trans women seem to be attracted to women which is partly I think why this is a big issue for discussion

maid it seems specifically aimed at lesbians, presumably because hetero men would beat them up for insisting they have sex with them, and also because these are men who are attracted to women, but pressuring lesbians into having sex validates their "womanhood". Revolting.

Nobody has said that gay men should be having sex with female bodied trans men (there's no term for it, there's no discussion of it) - as ever it's just women's bodies that should be available to service men sexually.

If only transwomen could be happy converting hetro cis females into lesbians?

Can anyone answer me this, are transwomen lesbians happy sleeping with other transwomen?

PAQ I believe not - I believe the argument for male bodied trans women not having to find other male bodied TW sexually acceptable is that it would be too "triggering" for them.

I am told that lesbian bars these days are just full of TW refusing to fuck each other