To feel incensed by the woman who gave me daggers today

[lill72]

I took my 5 year old to a Christmas carols concert at the Royal Albert Hall today. Lots of children go, as it is a singalong. There are also lots of older people there. We were sitting just behind a group of women in the 60's. My DD accidentally kicked the back of the seat of one women. I could not believe the daggers the woman gave me. She turned around and I tried to explain I was doing my best to stop DD from doing this. She just kept staring at me, trying to show her utmost disapproval. She did not mutter a word. ONLY STARED.This was when she did it once. My daughter then did it once more just brushing her feet, again, by accident and the woman turned and did the stare. It was mean and it was ugly.

After interval, I put my programme in front of me so she could not make eye contact with me. My DD unfortunately brushed the seat again as she was a bit restless. the lady turned but she could not make eye contact. I thought I am not giving you the satisfaction miserable old git.

I get it. It is annoying when someone hits your seat. But she was really awful the first time it happened. As my daughter was doing it by accident when she moved it is very hard for me to control. It really upset me soneone could be so harsh when it's an all ages xmas singalong which is supposed to be joyous and bring love and the Christmas spirit into your heart. I feel like sometimes people have forgotten what it is like to be a child or have children.

After this, I did everything I could to stop DD doing it again.

This woman kind of ruined my afternoon. I try my utmost to have a well behaved daughter and I am always aware of others around me, so much so that I probably apologise too much for things I do. I just find this sort of behaviour from this woman so nasty and bereft of any sort of forgiveness for the fact it was a child. I think of anyone, this woman was the one with the appalling behaviour.

The other woman around me were lovely.

In fairness to the OP, there are some odd people out there, and it is within the bounds of possibility she may have encountered one who over-reacted to a single, admittedly annoying, kick.

I was waiting to get on a bus home in a bus station with my three year old last week, and an elderly woman I've seen regularly on the bus (but don't know) started talking to him, asking him his name, age etc. He's very sociable and replied - he literally just beamed and said 'I'm X and I'm three and we're going home on the bus now' - and she pursed her lips and said to me 'He's got a very aggressive attitude, hasn't he?' as if he had just kicked her in the shins!

I was honestly baffled as to what she could possibly have meant, and in what way a small child standing and smiling at you while answering your questions could possibly be construed as 'aggressive', but I decided I was unlikely to get to the bottom of this in the bus queue, so just took myself and my aggressive child to a distant seat.

Honestly, it's a concert for children! You expect some disruption, you really do. Also, it's a singalong, which means average bleeding people opening their gobs and bellowing through as best they can. It's not ethereal, highly trained choristers singing Tallis. By definition, it's not the kind of repertoire that require supreme focus from the audience!!

Also, staring at someone is an unbelievably bad way of making your case. She should have turned around and said 'I'm so sorry, but your daughter is kicking my chair. I realise it's not deliberate, but I have terrible arthritic/rheumatism and it's causing me real pain. Would you mind swapping seats?' You'd have to be a complete cow not to do what someone asked of you in those circumstances.

(I have, however, encountered people who ARE that evil. I went to the theatre after I got married and an old lady was rustling one of those really crinkly bags behind me. I gave her my best smile, and asked her to stop in the most polite way I could. I even explained I'd just got married. She started to do it deliberately after that!! Some people are just evil, and age doesn't improve them. Fortunately, the theatre were lovely and moved me in the interval to a box!)

Ah! The clarion call of the self-entitled poor parent who has failed to raise their child with good manners and discipline.

Loathing - I'm not allowed to say what I would like to on here, but know that if there is such a thing as bad karma, you're owed some for that comment there.

This is 1 thing I will not miss about having small children. I am glad mine are coming out of that stage now. I'm sure I will probably end up like the death starer but I hope not. With the best will in the world, it is not possible to control a child 100% and sometimes you make an error of judgement as to where you take them and learn from it and not go back for a while. I would love to be a woman in my mid 60s when I only have myself to worry about and only be answerable to my own behaviour

No, Hp. Parents need to discipline their damn children so they know they are not allowed to kick and to punish them if they transgress. If they cant or wont, they should keep their offspring at home until such times as they can behave correctly.

I agree but sometimes you don't realise your child going to be like that till you're actually in the situation and then what you do? Yes you should punish them but how do you do that? Do you have her great big scene in a public place? Sometimes I have appeared to be ineffectual for saving the punishment for home. Other times I've taken them out and back in when that calm or if not just taken them home. Of course there have been times when I've turned into screaming harridan which is also wrong. Having children, especially young childre, is very very hard and it is not going to be perfect and parents are not going to be perfect and mistakes are going to be made and also the public around them are not going to react perfectly and they're going to make mistakes and errors of judgement to as to how they react to parents. And I think this woman overreacted even if the chair thing is annoying. Op apologised but the woman continued staring which I think is really really rude actually

Yes, that's right, you do need to step in if they do something wrong, as indeed the Op says she did

As for staying at home for ever in case children cry, do something minorly annoying, speak out of turn? Absolutely not, people who are so intolerant they can't help children to learn what is social behaviour are the ones who should stay at home. The UK is already one of the most anti-child places to live in, now we are being told we should predict minor transgressions in our children and stay home in case they ever occur? Totally ridiculous and anti-human as it happens. The irony is that there are up to a million older people in the Uk who have very little human contact, feel they don't matter and are invisible. Being older in the Uk is very thankless experience too. This judging and nastiness towards old and young is becoming endemic.

It is very annoying when your seat is being kicked.

My DSD used to kick seats without realising she was doing it. On planes, trains, concerts, buses etc I would have to tell her to stop every 5mins or put my foot in front of hers so she kicked me not the seat. I felt very sorry for anyone sitting in front of her and would often swap seats. And I made a point of loudly telling her to stop so it didn't look like I was ignoring it.

Maybe your DD was kicking more than you noticed? I don't blame the poor woman for glaring at you.

Theatre doesn't have to a lesson in how to still!

Sometimes children can just be children and enjoy the show.

This should be an event where a parent doesn't have to worry (more than a simple apology) about their five year doing an ordinary child like thing - like accidentally knocking a seat.

The people who mind this have picked the wrong show. There are plenty of other more suitable events at the RAH and elsewhere for those who, for whatever reason, would find a child moving annoying. And as per the detail HP has posted, pretty sure the venue would agree.

Surely the kickee should have verbally asked OP to move her child or something? It's too be expected though cinemas, theatres, sports stadiums can be very cramped! Request an aisle seat I find that best!

Imagine if YOU had hit her chair by mistake and she turned and gave YOU a massive stare, would you feel like profusely apologising?

Ah so you didnt even apologise then? I would still have said sorry.

Only on MN could having the back of your seat kicked by a child become your fault. Your DD shouldn't have been kicking the back of somebody's seat. If she won't stop doing it then she isn't ready to be taken to a performance like this. You are the one in the wrong not the woman objecting. You should have changed seats with your DD and let her kick one of the other lovely women's seats. Good grief talk about passing blame.

Maybe the lady didn't expect to have her seat kicked through the performance?
hp so she should just stay home?
Really? Does that apply to all people with disabilities too?
I don't leave the house much as it is!
Maybe i should just never bother leaving?
Ive been to shows before in very cramped conditions but amazingly noone bumped me or kicked my seat.

Viviennemary

thank you.

Funny how the uk is anti children and people feel invisible ( yes!) yet you are saying this women should have stayed home!
How do you know that was not her one day out in the week or 2 weeks?

I guess she had kicked the chair more than once but you did not notice before.

I have had kids kicking my chair and it IS annoying, and after a few times I might do the stare/or ask "sorry, but could you ask your daughter to stop kicking my chair?".

If you studiously ignored me hiding behind a leaflet, I'd have you down as an antisocial parent who only cares about her kid, and screw everyone else.

She 'gave daggers' and you're 'incensed'.

Peas in a pod OP.

I've had battles on planes about this sort of thing. To be fair to the five year old, seats are not usually designed for kids but much bigger adults, and it means sometimes their legs have to stick straight forwards, meaning they can knock seats even when they are trying to be good as gold.

Then people who have forgotten what it is like to be a child make a right fuss as though the world is ending, which I think is very entitled behaviour given that there needs to be accommodation on both sides in light of the seat design/space issue.

I wish some of the grumpy old bats who make a fuss about these things with their rude comments and nasty stares could think about that for a minute and be a bit more understanding. But then again, if it wasn't seat-kicking they were taking exception to I am sure they would find something else (we were treated passive aggressively once because someone else's bag was in a place that displeased said grumpy bat - nothing to do with us, but we got the brunt end of it.

Oh God, save me from parents who can't understand why 'grumpy old bats' (nice bit of ageism there) might object to their seat being kicked by a child.

I notice the word 'sorry' doesn't appear anywhere in the OP's posts

That's what I'm saying, I'm saying if everyone was a tiny bit more tolerant, and smiled a little, and was courteous (the lady could have politely turned around and said 'I'm sure it was an accident but could you try not to kick my chair again, thanks so much' and given the little girl a big grin) then both older and younger people would benefit. For all those older people huffing at a little girl kicking a chair a couple of times (and it is incredibly easy for them to do that as if they stretch their legs they will do so whereas an adult won't), there will be a young person huffing at them walking slowly on the Tube, or banging past them or not carrying their heavy bags.

Kindness does make the world go round. This lady was not kind. Not at all. She can't stop little children occasionally doing annoying things, only alter her own reaction. at a Christmas concert filled with fun, singing and people doing silly dances!

'This lady was not kind. Not at all.'

OP doesn't sound particularly kind herself.

I've had to hold my son's legs to stop him kicking. Shouldn't be an issue in a concert be cause he would be in the wheelchair section where there should be plenty of space around him.
I will say again that if people are expected to stay home if they cannot behave then many severely disabled children/ adults would never go out and they should be able to go things they enjoy just like everyone else. I wish people would think before they say things like this.

My God, there are some appallingly ageist comments on this thread. WHY is this considered acceptable on Mumsnet when any hint of sexism or racism is jumped on with both feet?

I went to the theatre after I got married and an old lady was rustling one of those really crinkly bags behind me. I gave her my best smile, and asked her to stop in the most polite way I could. I even explained I'd just got married.

WTF does you being married have to do with anything?

Back to the OP: If I turned around to look at a little girl kicking my chair and her mother didn't even say sorry, I'd start staring too.