to think that you cannot work full time and support your children's education?

[IslandGirlie]

I've tried to juggle FT work and 2 DCs, they are in Reception & Y1 and failing miserably!
This month I've missed a few school request/ preps for events & kids are having to rush to get things ready for said events. Teachers sending notes to remind things..
I feel like I'm not supporting them in their school work / not spending quality time with them.
Is it possible to be on top this and work full time? School sends at lest 1 email a day! Most days it's two!! There's is always a leaflet in the bag..
DH works full time too and he is helpful as much as he can do. I can't stop wondering that it's not possible to work FT and support children.
How do you do it?

It is very tough. I feel so guilty all the time.

I'm another single parent who works full time, 40 hours per week (8:30am-5:00pm), often I am still in the office at 5:15 and possibly later if I have deadlines to meet. So get home at roughly 6pm, have dinner, then my youngest will read to me. Bed at 7:30-8pm.

We now do homework in the mornings after breakfast (at least they are early birds!) whilst I do the dishes / get ready myself etc and I can help when required. If it doesn't get done within that time slot, I will send a note in.

I go through the kids bags as soon as they are in bed to check for notices and then emails. Anything of notice goes straight into my iCalendar, even then things get missed as your tired.

Re cakes sales, if I get plenty of notice I will bake a cake but I have to have a weekend to do so, otherwise another note gets send in, I would happily oblige £5 or whatever, I am not staying up to 11pm to bake a cake I cannot even eat.

I often send the kids in uniform if it is costume day as I do not have the time or creative whatsoever, thankfully they are not fussed either way.

Kids understand that I cannot attend every school event and that I have to miss some, especially if they are during the day.

YABU, I work 50+h a week and still manage to support my children in their education (I listen to them read, I go through homework with them and I bake cakes for their various events). DH works part time from home so they do essentially have a SAHP - but he doesn't do any of the costume sourcing, making sure the correct colour clothes are out for the appropriate days (the last one was blue for the tug of war competition), or any of the baking. That's all down to me. You just have to be organised.

We have a magnetic whiteboard on the fridge, split into the 7 days of the week (along the top) and the 4 of us (down the side). Each box has important things that need to be done for that day. When the boys come home on Monday, we look at their homework book which will have a list of things that are being done that week (costume days, book days, gala, museum trips, etc) - they go on to the whiteboard. If baking needs to be done, I find a free evening before it's needed and write what I need to bake in "my" square for that evening. We write the week's meals along the top so we can get the meat etc out the night before and DH can prep it for me to cook when I get in. Emails from the school are checked and added to the whiteboard as we get them.

We make lunches the night before, we prep things needed for school (summer here so that's swimming stuff and towel every day as a minimum) the night before so mornings aren't as rushed.

A typical week will also include our exercise sessions (us all Monday evening, me Tuesday evening, boys Wednesday afternoon, us all Thursday evening, boys Friday afternoon, us all Saturday and Sunday mornings) and my work sessions plus on call shifts. It's busy!

There are 24h in a day and unless I'm on call, I'm only at work for 10 of them. Assuming I sleep for 8 of them that's 6h for everything else, there's room for it all.

The first thing I'd change is your DH being "helpful as much as he can"

He's their parent too right? Do he does 50% of all this stuff. Not to help you because it's your responsibility and he's helping. But because it's his responsibility

Hold in there. This time of year is bonkers and this kind of craziness only lasts a few years

It is tough, mine are now in years 11 and 9 so it is much easier because they can do much more themselves and they don't have as many events during the day that a parent needs to attend. Although having said that they still do out of school activities which require quite a lot of time.

I agree with others that you need to be organized, I found it much less stressful doing things as soon as I was aware of them. If I got an email asking for a costume, I would usually order the costume or the items needed to make the costume online that day. If dd's bring home letters for trips, etc. that need to be signed, I will sign it and send it back into school the next day.

I was lucky to have an organised school.

We got the weekly notes home on Thursdays in "The Thursday Folder". The folder contained an all-school roundup plus individual note from each child's class. At one point my folder bulged with notes from four teachers plus the weekly all-school roundup. The notes home were also scanned for families that preferred an email. Not sure what they do now with so many smartphones but I know they were sending out a survey when my youngest was leaving, asking how parents liked using phones and email and debating ending the paper notes altogether.

But my point is we always got lots of notice for upcoming events, a week at minimum. Your school needs to get its act together. Parents should have at least a weekend to work with for items like costumes or projects. You should bring it up. Don't be the problem parent who moans at the lack of planning -- go with positive suggestions. Everyone wins when schools are on top of things.

On top of the Thursday Folder we had an all school directory so parents could call each other, swap costumes, arrange playtime, lifts, send out party invitations without bringing them to school. This was produced by the PTA equivalent on an opt out basis.
The directory included all email and phone contact info for the teachers, so there was no buttonholing of teachers at the school doors. Plus contact info for the principal and members of the school board.
An annual calendar was included in the directory, with all days off, half days, dates of the parent teacher conferences, dates for Christmas activities, the all school concert, the kindergarten and preschool concerts, the three orchestra and band concerts, the school picnic, the monthly school Mass, dates for school holidays, dates for first communion and confirmation and graduation, all worked out in August.
At the back of the directory were addresses for the playing fields and gyms of schools the school teams played against.
Parents funded the directory by payment of PTA annual dues (reasonable -- $10 per family)

At every bake sale, etc., there was the option of sending a $50 cheque instead of baked goods.

We also had a school website, set up and run by one of the teachers, that had all sorts of useful information that duplicated what was in the directory as well as showing photos of the children at work, on trips, enjoying visits by guest speakers, as well as doing science, exhibits of artwork, sports, etc. If a middle aged Spanish teacher could set up a decent website, anyone could.

What to do with constant notes home until things change?
Look through the schoolbag every day while standing beside your calendar and with your phone at the ready. Make sure your bin is at your feet. Read the notes, mark your calendar. Bin the notes.

Get to know parents a year or two ahead and try to organise some kind of a costume collection so people are not always broadsided with demands that require money and time. Start a FB page. If someone has the space maybe they would be willing to curate the collection.

Buy box mixes for school event cakes. Children don't give a hoot about lovingly home made baked goodies as long as the burnt offerings are swimming in sprinkles. Buy more sprinkles than you ever think you will need.

Or better still, forget about all that baking until your children are older and are well established readers, know their tables, etc. Spelling, maths and the rest of the curriculum, especially general knowledge, are really important. Read for pleasure, not following the set texts, or it will seem too much like a chore for everyone. Concentrate on supporting their learning right now. Reading, maths and activities that will engage them at home and when out are really important. Get them into music lessons. I would have had my DCs do the art competition you mentioned. Let the rest go until you feel you are able to get to it.

Babyjakesmum -- send that kind of request back with a hamfisted mess made by your child or a note from you to say the required project was beyond your child's ability. This is what I call 'giving useful feedback' and 'being a responsible parent'. How are teachers to know they are wasting everyone's time unless parents tell them?

I agree with you about ordinary homework too. Leave it to the children if the school insists on it. Send back whatever was accomplished in twenty minutes. Again, teachers need to understand where the children really are in terms of organisation and staying power.

I have a binder and buy a loose leaf day to a page calendar each year. I keep it on the kitchen bench and every time I get a letter or email that is something I need to do/take/pay/call/etc, it goes on the diary. Any relevant paperwork (such as theatre tickets, bill to be paid, etc) gets put in a plastic sleeve in the correct date. Each morning before I leave the house I check I've got everything I need.

YANBU. It is tough.

It is ridiculous. When I was at primary school, lots of mums stayed at home. They were not expected to do anything much, as I recall - parents didn't even attend sports day.

Now most families have 2 working parents & yet suddenly they have to be wildly involved at primary - why the shift? I don't understand & I am not convinced it benefits the children.

Secondary school is great, suddenly no expectations beyond parents evening once a year & prize giving if you're lucky. Again, why are parents suddenly not needed?

What is the reason and is there any evidence base to back up the stark primary/secondary divide in terms of parental involvement?

OK, having read the pposts since I first posts, I think our school expects less of us!

When i say costumes are easy, i only refer to dress up days. Our school provides nativity/school production costumes. And we don't have baking competitions. Crikey, im talking about knocking out some cupcakes for Xmas/divalu/eid etc parties!

You have multiple issues going on here; you need to break it down

1. reading and homework -you have to do this. I think this is north dropping work hours for if its not getting done. Mostly though, kids get more self-sufficient at this. Ive used a tutor to bolster, but mostly due to SEN

2. people moaning about the AMOUNT of stuff in a week; muftue, carol cincerts, parties, trips....most of that requires very little actual effort/input. Its just a memory/organisational thing. Scoop out All letters at the end of every day and transfer to calender. Same with emails

3] supporting school events. I choose the least supported 2 annual events and h3lp with those every year. You can't have ALL the parents helping at ALL the events, it would be chaos

3. if baking is not straight forward for you, then its fine to buy biscuits/crisps/whatevwr to class parties

4. school trips...again I do one a year

5. attending sportss days/plays...can you work flexibly? Make up hours/work from home?

6. attending planning meetings for school events. I never go to these but the school know what events I help at and then pass on info related to those.

7. sounds to me like you want to be more involved though. Are you able to work part time?

Similar situation here. 3 dc, 1 in school. I do the bare minimum. I don't get involved in any of the stuff outside of the actual learning, no cakes being baked here! As long as dc is going to school clean and doing his homework I'm happy! There is another thread about this but dcs school is terrible for informing us of a theme day with very little notice, on these occasions I get creative! Or make use of next day delivery on line shopping and keep fingers crossed the jumper/dress up/whatever arrives on time!!

I agree the demands primary schools put on you are ridiculous.

I worked full-time and couldn't get to school events and just thought, oh well it's tough. On the one day I went to see the class concert, the children were allowed to run off and see their parents/grandparents at the end. The two little children with no one there sat on the stage and burst into tears. It was awful.

My dc would get anxious about wearing costumes/preparing things to take in and on the rare occasion I forgot or didn't get the letter, they would act like it was the end of the world.

I do think you should complain when you are given little notice. Also some homework tasks are a complete waste of time and getting the dc to do them just adds stress to the home.

I think the primary school years are the most hostile to working parents by a long way. And the early primary years are the worst, because it's all new.

The tips on organisation on this thread are really good. When I was working FT, I was so much more organised than now (co-ordinating home and work diaries on a Monday morning being the vital step; this was before smart phones and school websites btw, everything by pupil post).

And schools do vary in how well they communicate with parents (I tend to assume it's bell curve - most are fine, some excellent but also a tail of not so). Requests for costumes/other parental contribution/attendance really do not have to be sent only 2 days before event. It's the same amount of effort for the staff to do it 10 days before, and shows such a better working relationship with the parents.

I have added guilt as I am a teacher so feel like I should be extra supportive of my children. I've felt really frowned upon this month by DDs school for not helping at the fair, not attending the play etc. And I really hate being the last to pick up 3 year old dS at nursery because I've spent hours at work dealing with other children's problems - I don't meant I hate dealing with them, I love my job and work very hard, but I don't like my own children suffering.

We move schools after Christmas and I feel the new one is much more working parent-friendly.

I'm sorry but there isn't much excuse for forgetting the children's party clothes. That takes 5 mins and very basic levels of organisation. It's also the kind of thing that's really important to the DC.

That said it is hard. My DC and I both work long hours with big commutes. You have to be ruthlessly organised.

A calendar on the back of the door won't cut it.

As soon as a school email comes in, any requirement goes in my phone, set to remind me in advance.

All their activities are in my phone with reminders the night before so everyone always has swimming kit/instruments etc.

As a pp said, Amazon is your friend. I can sew pretty well but costumes are all shop bought. Art supplies can arrive the next day etc.

Depending on how old they are give the DC some responsibility for telling you/ reminding you about things.

Find a way it organising the household that works for you and stick with it.

Your DH is 50% responsible for this stuff btw.

I agree, which is why I decided to give up work. My kids are teenagers now and need loads of support. I still don't have a full time paid job.

The primary years are absurd.

I recall a giddy merry go round of Roman feasts, Victorian days, sports events.

And I worked from home so had more flexibility than many parents!

I find the teenage years just as taxing as the primary years.

Posted too soon.

What really helped was notice. The parent body demanded it. And there was no reason not to give it as most events are planned months in advance.

In the end we received a diary at the beginning of each term with events on it, together with notes of what would be required.

I'm doing the teenage years now. Yes, still a lot of stuff going on in the school (good) but also DC more independent (better) and are showing signs of remembering stuff themselves (best).

As a SAHM I would often help out my friend with buying stuff like a particular coloured t shirt for Children in Need or Pudsey ears etc. If I am out buying it of course I would ask my friend if she needed me to do it.

I have cheered on other people's children at sports day etc because when you work in a medical setting you can't just book holiday when it suits you so I have stepped in. Could you rope someone in? I usually work for chocolate

Screw the bake sales and concentrate on the important stuff. Bake sales -there are always a few over enthusiastic parents who look like they have spent hours decorating cakes. Let them. It isn't me by the way.

Only one of my 3 DC is now still in primary, but I have devised a few methods to stay on top of the juggling.

I made a couple of very general costumes (capes are great, especially if you make them reversible with a different colour on each side) which can be adapted at short notice into characters from books, superheroes etc.

Every now and then I make several plain sponge cakes and freeze them. Then if I get a bake sale letter I can defrost one, fill the middle with jam, dust over some icing sugar and job done.

I do miss a lot of assemblies etc, this is still the same with the 2 DC in secondary. This Friday DS2 is singing in the choir in the morning and DD has a Christingle service in the afternoon, I would love to be at both but I have a meeting that I can't not go to. Yes, I feel guilty but that is life. We need my earnings and I need to work for my own sanity!

At the end of the day you pick the stuff that is important. Listening to them reading and helping with maths homework is infinitely more important to their education than baking a cake for a cake sale. You can always chuck an extra tenner into the donations bucket at the next concert to ease the guilt of not always baking.

I only work very pt now and dd is in year one. I probably work around 3 days a month.

Oh works full time with many trips away of around 5 days.

I honestly find that sorting all the school stuff is really full on. We are attending school Christmas things 3 times this week. No way I could do that and work full time.

Honestly take my hat off to those that do.

In my dc's entire primary careers I never once made a cake for the cake sale. It's not obligatory.

Supporting your kids in their education and supporting the dreaded PTA are two different things. The first matters, the second does not. Personally, when I was on the PTA (I had the luxury of being an SAHM for 10 years) I used to say it would be better to just ask every parent for £20 a year and crap all the cake sales, jumble sales, etc etc which took a lot of time and effort for not much money.

As for baking cakes, well Tesco et al do a good line in cakes.

I never made a cake, either.

I couldn't just drop hours at work - I had to pay the mortgage on my own. I found primary school a bit nuts in its expectations of working parents tbh, especially working lone parents. We sometimes got very late notice of inset days - think a note on Friday about the following Monday - and the stress was intense.