Y1 Teacher Refused to let DS go to the toilet, resulting in sitting in mess all day.

[FreeSpirit89]

My mum picked DS1 aged 5 up from school Friday afternoon (3.15pm), He was clearly distressed, and upset. When she got him beyond the school gates he told her he had messy pants on. He said he had asked to go to the toilet before first break (10.30am) and the teacher had said no, he couldn't hold it any longer and messed his pants.

The school is aware that DS has bowel problems, they have letters on file from his consultant specialist at the hospital as well as the family GP, and myself explaining that he needs to be able to have access to water at all times, and due to his condition he may not have much warning that he needs to go to the toilet, and it tends to leak out of him fairly quickly.

His bottom was red raw, and little sores have appeared at the top of his bum crack due to being made to sit in his own mess all day. He is quite upset, and doesn't want to go back to school because he thinks it will happen again.

Im planning on approaching the school head about this on Monday, but i am at a loss at how to do so? The head's default reaction to anything where the parent isn't there to witness the incident is that the child may be lying. I want to go prepared and not get to angry, which at the moment i'm struggling with. I just cant believe that they have treated this issue with no sensitivity and ignore my sons pleas for the toilet.

Any idea's how i can get them to listen and ensure this doesn't happen again would be greatly appreciated.

yes hand they do, it's part and parcel of working with young children!

I don't think people are saying that the teacher should have cleaned the boy up himself, hand - she could have asked another member of staff to do it.

Bottom line, if a child poohs him or herself in school, someone HAS to clean them up. It would be utterly unacceptable for them to be left sitting in their own faeces. I thought that schools had a duty of care, whilst children were there - and like it or not, that does include dealing with things like urine, faeces and vomit.

It is perfectly possible that the OP has told the teacher that 'I have skidded my pants' is how her son communicates that he has messed his pants. If she hasn't, then either she needs to tell the teacher this, or she needs to give her son a clearer phrase to use.

I do wonder how many children would be happy to say 'Miss - I have pooed my pants' in front of their schoolmates, though...

hand actually a child with additional needs would only get a ECHP after the school had spent an initial 6k (from the school's notional fund)in a year to cater for those additional needs. This equates roughly to 12 hours (constant) 1 to 1 care a week.

So yes, teachers do have to cater additional needs within their remit, by law.

Mabey op needs to teach her ds to tell a teacher that he's pooed himself if he has not reached the toilet in time. He has a care plan, if it transpires that the teacher did indeed refuse him the toilet, this should be dealt with and never happen again.

Yes Aeroflot it is, but we are extremely busy and we cannot be checking pants every 5 minutes. The children need to be taught & encouraged to come and tell us when there is a problem. Obviously if there is a special need then more rigorous checks will be put in place but this child is one in a class of 30. With only 2 adults. There could be any number of other SEN, EAL, children in the class who also need a lot of support. The teacher is trying to meet all these needs all of the time. Its very challenging and sometimes mistakes are made.

I remember two toilet opportunities at school. Scary head said no I couldn't go, I wasn't brave enough to ask again or say I was desperate, result wet pants and humiliation. Nice teacher I asked 5 minutes after break time. She asked if I'd been at break time, I said yes but I needed to go again. Off you go. I did have diarrhoea when I got there, told teacher, sent home.

Talking to children like reasonable human beings and trusting their judgement can get you a long way.

If they're that desperate to get out of your phonics lessons, what's going wrong with your phonics lessons?

Or another hoarse like: accident, or dropped one in my pants, or whatever. Or if ds feels more comfortable with skidded, this should be communicated to all staff that when ds tells them he's 'skidded' his pants, what it actually means is that he's soiled himself and needs cleaning.

Bottom line, if a child poohs him or herself in school, someone HAS to clean them up.

Well yes, but that only works if he's told someone that he's pooed himself. If he doesn't tell them, or he's using cutesy euphemisms like "skidding his pants" - what are they supposed to do, read minds? Check his pants every hour just in case? Guess? Go around sniffing?

The child needs to find a teacher/assistant and specifically say "I've had an accident". Why is he being taught such silly euphemisms, when the consequence for misunderstanding in this situation is that he soils himself and sits in it (if that's what actually happened) ?

"Yes Aeroflot it is, but we are extremely busy and we cannot be checking pants every 5 minutes. The children need to be taught & encouraged to come and tell us when there is a problem. Obviously if there is a special need then more rigorous checks will be put in place but this child is one in a class of 30. With only 2 adults. There could be any number of other SEN, EAL, children in the class who also need a lot of support. The teacher is trying to meet all these needs all of the time. Its very challenging and sometimes mistakes are made."

I absolutely accept this, and most of us do, I hope. However, when mistakes are made, I think it is so much better if the person who's made the mistake holds their hands up, says sorry, and is willing to look at what can be done to prevent the mistake being made again.

No hollie but if a child who has a known bowel condition and care plan in place, asks to go to the toilet, you let them, not refuse, then you or the TA won't have to clear up mess, much easier. Or if a child says their despararate to go to the toilet you let them!

OP I'm so sorry this happened.

All kids should be able to use the toilet, whenever. It's ridiculous that some people enjoy depriving children of going to the loo

I totally agree STDGis.

If they're that desperate to get out of your phonics lessons, what's going wrong with your phonics lessons

Haha, i knew someone would start saying this. No need to be concerned, I am consistently judged outstanding by my school management and Ofsted.

Children are not angels. Quite a few of them would sooner have a laugh with their mates than anything else - who wouldnt! I like having fun with my friends too - its human nature. Beats doing the cleaning, going to a meeting, anything else i dont fancy doing.

NO school i have ever worked in lets children go off to the toilet willy nilly. If i did this i would be failed in a teaching observation. I doubt very much that any of your DC's schools have a free toilet policy during key learning times. Perhaps you could find out?

No hollie but if a child who has a known bowel condition and care plan in place, asks to go to the toilet, you let them, not refuse, then you or the TA won't have to clear up mess, much easier. Or if a child says their desperate to go to the toilet you let them!

Yes of course. I have never said anything contrary to this. Its very hard to believe that this child was refused. If that is indeed the case then obviously the school need to look into it and make sure it doesn't happen again.

How do you know that a child actually needs to go when they ask. I asked was refused and soiled myself as I had a tummy ache when I was little. I told the teacher and they took me to the Welfare officer. Still embarrassing g though.

Its very hard to believe that this child was refused. If that is indeed the case then obviously the school need to look into it and make sure it doesn't happen again.

This is what can be very upsetting for people who are treated badly, if they are simply not believed from the outset. I would suggest hollie you have displayed your bias right here.

Then hollie i would suggest to answer in the context of the OP, which is a child with a SN.

Also what made you think that 'it's hard to believe'?

As in any profession, there are some good teachers and some bad teachers. What makes you think that teacher is one of the good ones? Or that child is telling lies? Or that the OP is overreacting?
Biased anyone?

I very much doubt that the teacher just said, "No." Perhaps there was another child using the toilet (some schools only have one per classroom)and she said, "No, not yet...." or, "Not now, is in there," and the DC didn't ask again.

If a DC said to me that they had skidded their pants I would assume skid marks ie not properly wiped.

Of course the OP has to find out what happened but she has to go in prepared to listen, as any reasonable person would. The hysterical few on this thread who seem to want to see the teacher lynched need to calm down and stop offering stupid advice. No teacher will be sacked because a child soiled himself. Ridiculous to suggest that. Sometime a child will deny that it's happened, what are teachers supposed to do then? To force a change on a resisting child is assault.

Obviously something went very wrong and measures need to be put in place to make sure it doesn't happen again.

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius - It was dried on. It looked as though someone had gone around with a jar of chocolate sauce, and smeared it on his pants. Thick, and paste like. Again not uncommon with DS problem.

hollieberrie - Unfortunately the nature of my DS's problem means that sometime we are in the toilet three or four times in 10 minutes at home. Even when we are out and he would very much be engaging in the activity at hand than in the toilet while I try to clean him for the sixth time in half an hour. Unfortunately the Drs are at a loss, because giving him laxative to try and regulate a regular going time daily makes the problem worse not better. Not giving him laxative causes the problem to remain the same. In all your wisdom please give me the answer I seek to help my son and prevent him from years of bullying at the hands of children who don't understand it cant be helped, espically when the actions of the teacher (refusing to let him go to the toilet) caused him to sit in his own feces in a room full of kids.

handinthecookiejar - The school are aware of DS cutesy expressions... Its a way for him to communicate his needs without having to be ridiculed by the other children, which will come eventually. Its only a matter of time. Anyone who works with small children must accept the likelyhood of accidents, the school has a nursery with non toilet trained children attached. If the teachers are not able to do those tasks, take a job teaching older children! I was a carer for a short time and discovered I could deal with cleaning other peoples crap up, did i demand that they next of kin of my cancer riden patient deal with it. No, that person was in my care and it was my job. So i did it. Then left!

Id love for my son to be normal, (i hate that term) but as it is, I have been dealing with this tedious and exhausted problem for years very successfully. Even his Reception teacher was very understanding and couldn't help DS enough. It's since he has entered into year one and this teacher seems not very well suited to be dealing with younger children. Her attitude would be better suited to an older child set.

I absolutely accept this, and most of us do, I hope. However, when mistakes are made, I think it is so much better if the person who's made the mistake holds their hands up, says sorry, and is willing to look at what can be done to prevent the mistake being made again.

And this may well happen STDG - the OP hasnt spoken to the school yet. The times that i have made mistakes I have always apologised profusely and spoken to my team and we have put something in place to ensure it didnt happen again. As anyone who is committed to their job would do. And this teacher may well do too - we don't know yet.

capsium - have you read Wombats posts? Or indeed any posts on this thread? The questions you are asking have been answered by myself and others already. The bottom line is WE DONT KNOW YET! But leaving a child in shit is obviously NOT standard practice. The chances of a teacher doing this on purpose are very small. But yes obviously not impossible. The OP needs to speak to the school and find out. We shouldnt crucify this teacher until then though - innocent until proven guilty and all that.

I'm leaving this thread now, its been er, enlightening. God, who'd be a teacher these days.

You may find the head is busy on Monday morning with pre-arranged meetings etc. or phone when the office opens and check first. I would take a formal letter to the head stating the facts and that you want this investigated and a phone today and then you have a letter to hand in if the head isn't available but also a copy of the facts as you know them to refer to.
Get a copy of the complaints procedure and follow it to the letter if you are not happy with the inital response. Any phone conversations/meetings follow up with an email/letter saying just to confirm x,y and z was discussed and this is going to be done by x date. It gives you a paper trail.

Good luck, it is difficult dealing with something like this, that is horrible but any decent school no matter what the circumstances would want to put in steps to make sure it doesn't happen again.

hollie yes I have read the thread. What strikes me though is that your disbelief seems to come across quite transparently as defensiveness (regarding the position of the teaching profession) rather than genuine concern over the humiliation and distress distress experienced by the OP's child. This is what concerns me, when teachers cannot see past defending themselves in order to rectify practises when mistakes have been made.

A P.S. for the OP - you sound lovely and caring and I'm so sorry you are struggling with this problem. In my experience (Primary) most children are very accepting and your son shouldnt be judged or bullied. They tend to be quite matter of fact "Oh thats Rosie, she cant walk very well", "Oh thats Mini Free Spirit, he has to go to the toilet a lot" etc.

All i can suggest is talk to and work with the school and by all means push for the School Leadership Team to take it more seriously if you feel like they are not doing so. I have always welcomed discussion and interaction with the parents of children with needs - they know much more than i do and it benefits everyone all round to have a good relationship - family and school working in partnership together to do the best they can for the child.

I'm sorry this thread has descended into arguing. Its the aggressive assumptions that its all the teacher automatically at fault / has done it on purpose that have upset me, not your OP. Good luck.