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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

...to think surely nobody will vote Donald Trump now?

524 replies

QuizteamBleakley · 07/12/2015 23:15

Donald Trump thinks there should be a ban on all Muslims entering the U.S.

Beeb news here.

OP posts:
claig · 14/12/2015 14:10

'Who is the running mate?'

"Sarah Palin won’t rule out serving as Donald Trump’s vice president: “He’s shaking it up the way it should be”

www.salon.com/2015/08/28/sarah_palin_wont_rule_out_serving_as_donald_trumps_vice_president_hes_shaking_it_up_the_way_it_should_be/

IPityThePontipines · 14/12/2015 14:12

This is just nonsense now. Far too many threads on here get filled up with Claig's endless flights of fancy, so we end up not discussing the actual issues at hand, but instead having to explain in very small words why someone being a racist bigot means they are not suitable for leadership.

babybarrister · 14/12/2015 14:13

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

claig · 14/12/2015 14:16

IPityThePontipines, this is a thread about Trump and will anyone still vote for him. I think they will and posters have asked me who his running mate will be and how he will appeal to more voters than the Republican base. If you want to discuss what a racist bigot Trump is, I am not stopping you.

ComposHatComesBack · 14/12/2015 18:32

I think Trump will offer economic hope, jobs repatriated to America, rising wages for working class and middle class America.

Which is what every politician seeking office offers. No one goes into an election, promising job cuts, recession and a falling standard of living. But how will he deliver that? You don't know and I suspect he doesn't either and we can't judge as he has no track record in political office.

I think he will tell some devastating facts that will shock voters of all parties.

Pure guesswork on your part. If he has this political dynamite, why has he sat on it for so long? He has been talking of running since 2000, why wait 15 years if he has explosive revelations?

He gets on with everyone inspite of his style.

Apart from African-Americans, Mexicans, Gays, Muslims, Vietnam Veterans who he has managed to offend and alienate. Which pretty much leaves his core support of working class, male white republicans.

Trump has inside sources, Trump knows all the dirt, Trump will have poweful backers behind him

If you don't seem to mind me saying, you have very definite visions of how the world should look and operate and the type of leadership needed, you seem to project all these qualities onto someone regardless of whether they fit the bill or not and it comes across as a bit starstruck and gushy and utterly blind to their faults and predict a glorious victory for them. Last year you did it with Farage and this year you are doing it will Trump.

claig · 14/12/2015 19:03

Compos, Trump is all about gut feel, not policy.

ABC News did a brilliant piece on it interviewing Trump supporters in Iowa. It is all about gut feel alone and the fact that the establishment can't buy and own Trump which makes people trust hi. Whether it is wrong to trust him, people will only find out later. People are not too interested in the policy details, all they want is someone to "get the job done" and that is teh gut feel they get from Trump. So I don't know how Trump will do it, though he says he will slash corportion tax to 15% which will bring US companies back to America from China and offshore. That sounds good. Trump deals in huge brush strokes, he isn't a detail person like Hillary. Trump hires detail people to get the job done, all he does is to supply the vision, the leadership. That is what his supporters like. Triump is a salesman, he is selling "making America great again". Whether he can deliver, no one yet knows.

'If he has this political dynamite, why has he sat on it for so long?'

Because he has never gone full in to run for President until now. Also some of the dynamite is from years ago and some is recent. Trump will only show his cards if he needs to, he won't bother if he is winning easily.

Yes, he has offended a lot of people which was stupid but seems to be his over the top style, but I think he will be able to turn a lot of that around because he is a salesman and will change his views as and when it suits. He will try and offer something to everyone. Whether it will work, we don't know, because his opponents will hit him hard on everything.

'you have very definite visions of how the world should look and operate and the type of leadership needed'

Yes, I know what I would like and I know what I think is wrong and I think I know what it would take to fix it.

'you seem to project all these qualities onto someone regardless of whether they fit the bill or not'

No, I support the nearest candidate who can fix what is wrong, I don't project anything onto Tony Blalir, for example, because he is part of what is wrong.

' it comes across as a bit starstruck and gushy and utterly blind to their faults and predict a glorious victory for them'

No, that is my sense of humour. I am long enough in the tooth not to believe what a politician tells me. I know Farage is not serious and would prefer to go fishing and will retire in a few years. I know his heart is not in fixing the country's problems which is why he can't succeed. I know that Trump may be a trick, he may pull out and let all the people down or worse still he may take people's liberties, but there is no other choice, voters can only choose from the actors on the stage. Trump is in the ring, he is the nearest thing to solving the problems so he is the only game in town.

ChipsandGuac · 16/12/2015 04:04

So, did any of you watch tonight's debate? It was almost embarrassing how many of them are clinging onto Isis and terrorism instead of concentrating on the problems in the US itself.

claig · 16/12/2015 04:22

Yes, I watched it. Trump struggled a bit with the detail. I thought Ted Cruz was very good, haven't seen him that much before. Don't agree with him on everything, but on 80% he is right. Rand Paul and Carly Fiorina did well. Agree more with Rand than Carly but she was impressive.

Agree with you, too much on Isis etc, not enough on jobs, health and the US. At least Trump focused on not spending trillions abroad and saying that if the 4 trillion had been spent in the States rather than on war in Iraq etc, things would have been much better. Also Rand summed up saying the debt was the biggest problem.

I am a bit worried that Trump doesn't know enough detail e.g the Triad etc and that Hillary will be clued up on all of that.

Great stuff though. Am very impressed with the US system, lots of gruelling 2 and 3 hour debates and a year of campaigning. Excellent for democracy compared to our system of 1 month campaigning and politicians too scared to debate and trying to get out of it.

claig · 16/12/2015 04:29

Also, am now a big fan of Fox News and even politically correct CNN. They are both far superior to the BBC and Sky, The level of political analysis, pundits like Krauthammer, Goldberg etc and access to top politicians and strategists and generals is way beyond what we get on our TV. It is serious analysis.

ChristineDePisan · 17/12/2015 00:02

Sorry Claig, you've lost me - you think Fox and CNN beat the Beeb...? Right....

PigletJohn · 17/12/2015 00:08

I think that was a little joke.

cf. "No, that is my sense of humour"

claig · 17/12/2015 00:36

ChristineDePisan, I didn't used to like Fox. I thought it was spin. But I have watched it for about 2 weeks on and off and have seen how good it is.

I usually watch Sky News which is quite good. I don't watch BBC News 24 as it has more spin than Sky. But Fox is top quality because of the anchors like the excellent Great van Susteren, the arrogant but also funny Bill O'Reilly and right wing Hannity. I don't like Megyn but her show is good because of the top level guests. The reason it is so much better than Sky is that Sky and BBC News 24 only have mainly rolling news with repeated video reports on the hour, very superficial and short, no really top level guests. Fox and the American networks treat politics seriously becuse the US is a world power and therefore you get top ex-military commentators, top former Clinton and Bush speechwriters and campaign startegists and top-class world-class political analysts and authors and pundits analysing events and candidates and shows like O'Reilly, Greta's one and Hannity have long segments with these guests where the anchor understands the politics involved and can grill the guests. We have nothing similar.

Newsnight is great, but too short and not in the same league, plus it is obvious spin. Evan Davies is excellent but last night, Newsnight had Ann Coulter on about Trump and it was BBC spin, the only real questioning was to bias the audience against Trump by wasting Ann Coulter's time by asking her why Trump doesn't use more racist language and why did he talk about his daughter in an off-taste way. It was pathetic spin, but a sign that the elites are desperate about the Trump phenomenon.

Want2bSupermum · 17/12/2015 01:05

Quite frankly who needs enemies when you have Sarah Palin endorsing you. For that reason alone he will not get the nomination. She is seen as a parasite by those running the GOP.

claig · 17/12/2015 01:28

Want2bSupermum, I like Sarah Palin but I always thought she was a deliberate candidate who was supposed to fail (like a McCain), but even so I still liked her. There is some excellent Democratic analysis that Trump may in fact be exactly the same, a deliberate failure, intended to help the other side, the Democrats. It is possible. He is so far out there, so wild that he may deliberately implode having destroyed all of the GOP puppets. Only time will tell.

But if you look at the Establishment candidates - Rubio, Bush, Christie and Kasich, it is obvious that none of them can beat Hillary adRepublican voters have had enough of deliberate failure by the GOP and of them letting the people down. The Republican base no lobger trusts the Republican Establishment, they have had enough of the "losers" as Trump calls them. That is why it is the anti-establishment outsiders like Carson and Trump and the secretly Establishment but trying to be conservative (whom the Establishment actually don't like much) Cruz who are populare with the Republican voters. All the Republican voters want is some real conservative policies and for the conservatives to win.

Trump was once a Democrat, now he is a Republican (he says). The Republican base love him because he talks the talk, he walks the walk and he can't stand the establishment just like the people can't stand them either. Whether Trump will let the people down and whether he is for real, no one yet knows. All we can do is hope. He has got the BBC and the elites across teh world petrified so voters think he is for real, but he may just be playing a role.

There is some funny analysis of why he is so popular.

"It sort of worked the first time, but the second time Bush tried to tell Trump he couldn't "insult his way" to the presidency, Trump saw the situation for what it was: an opportunity to insult this whiny, entitled WASP who thinks the presidency is his birthright and that Trump, and implicitly his supporters too, are unserious and unworthy of influence. So Trump pointed out that he's beating the living shit out of Bush under every conceivable metric and left it at that. He even added some sarcastic mocking of Bush's macho posturing: "Oh, I know. You're a tough guy, Jeb. I know."

www.vox.com/2015/12/15/10270608/trump-won-debate

Trump is beating "the living shit" out of the elites and the base love it. Trump is representing the people against the elites.

Top pundits, brilliant ones like Krauthammer and Goldberg, on O'reilly dislike Trump and O'Reilly said to Krauthammer, we are getting mail from viewers saying why are you so against Trump, because the viewers love Trump as he is sticking it to the system, and Krauthammer says because what Trump is doing is wrong, he is not being serious, he is letting politics down, but O'Reilly, who I get the feeling is not too keen on Trump either, has got it spot on. He said Trump is doing it because he wants to win, he doesn't care what he says because he wants to win. He says he doesn't like what Trump is doing but "Trump is brilliant, he is not playing their game, he wants to bring the whole corrupt system down" and everytime a Bush tries to stop him, Trump just moves the debate further off-field and dictates the terms.

Sallyingforth · 17/12/2015 09:54

The thought of Trump being president and having a face-off with Putin just terrifies me.

CoteDAzur · 17/12/2015 09:56

"AIBU ...to think surely nobody will vote Donald Trump now?"

OP - As you can see on this thread, you should never underestimate the power of human stupidity.

Doublebubblebubble · 17/12/2015 09:58

I've got such a bad feeling about him... Everytime he says something controversial it just garners more attention for him and potential votes.. Gosh I hope the American people do the right thing

ChristmasTurkey2015 · 17/12/2015 10:09

I vote claig to be Trump's running mate Xmas Grin

claig · 17/12/2015 10:19

'I vote claig to be Trump's running mate'

Now that would be an unbeatable ticket Wink

'The thought of Trump being president and having a face-off with Putin just terrifies me.'

I think Trump will surprise everyone. Trump has said he thinks he will get along with Putin. Trump is not the war candidate, he will smash Isis with ease, but he won't start WW3, he is fed up of America spending trillions on war and was against the Iraq War etc.

If you watched the debate you would have seen some dangerous Establishment candidate talk. Kasich. Establishment candidate, said "it is time we punched Russia on the nose, they've been getting away with too much for too long" and Christie, Establishment candidate, said he would enforce a no-fly zone and shoot down any Russian plane that entered it and the excellent Rand Paul said "if you want WW3, there is your candidate".

The GOP Establishment call Obama weak, but in my opinion he has done a great job in stopping the crazies start WW3. Trump is a lot more sane than some of teh crazies who would risk war. As the excellent non-Establishment Rand Paul said, a war like that would risk hundreds of thousands of bodybags coming back.

Trump is actually a reasonable guy over those big issues.

Dipankrispaneven · 17/12/2015 15:06

Do tell us how Trump is going to "smash ISIS with ease"? Preferably without killing lots of innocent people?

claig · 17/12/2015 15:22

Dipankrispaneven, Trump will smash Isis with consummate ease because he intends to do it. He will do a deal with Putin and Assad most probably and they will do the groundwork and clear them out of Syria. Then Trump will phone up all of the puppets in the Middle East and tell them that the game is over, if he catches any of them funding Isis, arming the London DJ Jjhadis or buying oil off them, then they better watch out. Trump doesn't mess about and no one messes the United States about.

The Saudi Prince who tweeted that Trump should stand down because he is a "disgrace" to America and that he won't win is going to get a shock when Trump changes the world. According to Trump's former adviser, the extremely hardball Roger Stone, the Saudis have been in with the Bushes.

Trump doesn't like Bush. Trump is anti-establishment, pro America. If Trump wins, the entire world changes. America will be number one, but they won't be helping out dictators who behead people and they won't take kindly to puppets across the world lecturing the American people on who is or isn't "fit for office" to be President of the United States.

claig · 17/12/2015 15:26

Trump said in the debate, we can't do two things at once, we can't fight Isis and Assad. Trump will sort Isis out first and then he will do a deal with Putin most probably over Assad.

Dipankrispaneven · 17/12/2015 16:05

So what deal would he do with Putin? What if Putin doesn't fancy it, or reneges on the deal? How will ISIS be cleared out of Syria in a manner which doesn't harm the rest of the population? And when he tells other governments they'd better watch out, what is he going to do if they don't? Are we talking declarations of war here?

Want2bSupermum · 17/12/2015 16:15

I actually think Trump is one of the few leaders who could manage Putin. Trump has previously said he would have Putin manage the ME and have America stay out. This is exactly what Putin wants and actually, based on how poorly America has done in the ME, I think it is a smarter strategy that sending the US military in.

Also, Cameroon and Merkel have not been able to manage Putin, nor has Obama. I really don't see how Trump could do any worse than them.

claig · 17/12/2015 16:29

'So what deal would he do with Putin? What if Putin doesn't fancy it, or reneges on the deal?'

I don't know. Putin will want a fair deal, he wants to get along and do business etc. Trump plays hardball and is king of the Art of the Deal, but Trump is also fair, he doesn't take all of the pie, he will do a deal that suits America and where America wins but where the Russians will also get something out of it. Putin will have no choice provided it is a fair deal.

'How will ISIS be cleared out of Syria in a manner which doesn't harm the rest of the population? '

Because you have to understand what Isis really is, what the London DJ Jihadis and Chechen rebels and former Saddam generals and all of the funded mercenaries really are. They have been helped and funded to act as a proxy army to take down Syria for Syria's Sunni neighbours. I think, but I don't know, that Trump will change the world, that the Sunni game will be over. He has said it looks like Turkey is helping Isis with the oil, he has said it is great that Putin is sorting Isis out, he has said that we don't know who we are backing in Syria and that although Assad is a bad guy, that some of the people we are backing seem worse etc. The Saudi prince called Trump a "disgrace". Roger Stone says that some Saudis have funded the Bushes. There is probably panic among some rich people about what will happen if Trump takes charge and changes everything.

'in a manner which doesn't harm the rest of the population?'

Our generals said it could be done in two weeks with ground troops and tanks. Everybody says that bombing won't beat Isis. I think Trump will finish them for real. He will get other people to do it, he will do deals to "get the job done" and above all, he will warn every single puppet in the region that if they are found to be funding Isis that they will be in big trouble. That will end Isis very quickly indeed.

'And when he tells other governments they'd better watch out, what is he going to do if they don't?'

This is where Trump says he wants to be "unpredictable". He doesn't need to spell it out. They are already in meltdown at a potential Trump presidency, they know what it means.

'Are we talking declarations of war here?'

No, Trump doesn't need to do that. All he needs to do is tell them hardball on the phone. If they are stupid enough to call him "unfit for office" after that, then they are more stupid than anyone thought. Trump can call for the sequestration of assets, accuse people of aiding and abetting terrorists, put sanctions on, put arrest warrants out and if necessary activate regime change. They know the game, they know that no one messes with Trump.

This is where what I think the faux conservative Fox host, Bill O'Reilly, is wrong. He keeps interviewing Trump and saying "but Donald you can't alienate these countries, we need their support to defeat Isis". Everyone knows, including Trump, that some of these people are actually funding Isis. And Trump says "don't worry about it, we are already paying lots and we get nothing, nothing, we lose everytime, we are run by losers". Trump knows that if he tells them the score, they better listen. If they are not on the side of America, then they are on the wrong side.