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Original poster

Not to accept that my DD is 'really a boy'?

370 replies

Scootering · 07/12/2015 13:05

This is actually about my DSD, who is nearly 18.

Over the last few months she has told us she is 'trans' and wants us to call her 'David' (not this name exactly...).

Her father and I (and her mother) think this is crazy. She has always been perfectly happy as a girl, long hair and dresses, not remotely tomboyish. This has all happened since she has met a group of very 'out' gay men and I think she really wants to be like them. Her idea of 'being a boy' is to be (frankly) a raving queen (very camp) with flowery shirts and pink hair.

We have NOT started to refer to her as 'our son' or called her 'him' or 'David'. She says we are ruining her life and will never accept her.

We have said we will not do these things until she has been through proper counselling to discuss this. We paid for her to start this but she gave it up after the first session because she 'knows who she is' and 'doesn't need to discuss it'.

So we are now at a impasse. She says we are ruining her life. We are really not remotely convinced we should be acting like she's a boy.

Are we being unreasonable? Are we torturing her? I'd really be grateful for advice because we are finding it all really embarassing and difficult (particularly with elderly parents).

OP posts:
noeffingidea · 09/12/2015 13:57

scootering I know where you're coming from. Personally I see this as a parenting issue as much as anything else.
I am an experienced parent who was raised 2 adults by myself, both of them mentally healthy and happy. It's very important with teenagers (as I'm sure you're aware) to be in tune with them emotionally, to be aware of their mental health issues. Are they withdrawn? Are they becoming isolated? Are there signs of self harming, etc etc. Gender dysphoria isn't the only problem that teenagers face, and it doesn't have to be viewed in isolation or anything more significant than other issues they may have.
Personally I wouldn't insist on counselling but I would use the child's preferred name and pronouns. That shows that you respect their feelings and is a sign of good faith.I wouldn't insist on the younger siblings using them, and as others have suggested I wouldn't inform other family members either.
If it did go further I would consider it my responsibility as a parent to present the wider picture. For example, as a former nurse I would advise against unneccesary medication and especially elective surgery. Having said all that, ultimately you have to allow your adult children to make their own choices.
If it turns out to be a mistake then sobeit, you just have to be there if it goes arse up.

ShortcutButton · 09/12/2015 14:00

To be fair jay most trans people do not have happily clappy positive stories. Even if your nearest and dearest are supportive, it is clear not an easy road. Its not something you want for your children. Thatz before you even think about the conflict with OPs core beliefs and the effect on other children. With respect, you are TG but you are not a parent. There is definitely a parental perspecyive you are lacking

AlbusPotter · 09/12/2015 14:21

Personally I wouldn't insist on counselling but I would use the child's preferred name and pronouns. That shows that you respect their feelings and is a sign of good faith

This is such good advice.

Original poster
Scootering · 09/12/2015 14:28

Fair enough but I'm not going to do that.

Have heard today that she has rejected her Camhs appointment. To me, that means she isn't serious.

OP posts:
Nataleejah · 09/12/2015 15:00

Tricky one. I know a 40yo guy who prefers to be called by a female name. Let's say he's Tom, but calls himself Emma and is referred to as "she". Most confusing, he/she is very masculine man, not even gay.
Everyone who knows him, sort of accepted this. Ok, be Emma if you want to. But strangers go WTF is that all about. One detail, he has some sort of MH issue.
Your DD is almost an adult, so its probably not a phase like with smaller children. So definetly counselling is necessery.

MajesticWhine · 09/12/2015 15:13

The thing is OP, by not accepting this until she has had counselling (and I totally understand your viewpoint) I wonder if you are somehow reinforcing her ideas. So, let's say she is having a crisis of identity, feeling perhaps "I don't fit in" or maybe even "I am unacceptable as I am". So she then decides to experiment with her identity in order to try to fit in or become more acceptable. This partly works, because she maybe feels she is more acceptable to her group and fits in better. But that alternative identity is rejected by the family (by not using David and masculine pronouns) which then perpetuates the idea of her being fundamentally unacceptable and needing to do something drastic about it. Just a thought.

RedToothBrush · 09/12/2015 15:29

I think there is a possibility that she wants to be rejected as it plays into her world view if its one where her identity is defined by being the outsider and fitting in with other outsiders. (Sibling's ex was of this ilk. Thankfully no longer around to spread poison and negativity. Did much damage though and made a difficult situation worse).

But to that end no matter how supportive you were, I think she would probably twist it to somehow make out you weren't if she were of that mentality.

That's the problem. You don't know whether that is the case and I don't think anyone here can really say that either.

Original poster
Scootering · 09/12/2015 15:48

Red toothbrush: I think you have hit the nail on the head there. That is very much how she works and was the main reason we hoped that counselling would be helpful in getting her to recognise her negative behaviour patterns to improve friendships etc.

OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 09/12/2015 15:55

Either way it sounds like she has her finger on the self destruct button. Just do whatever you can to keep channels of communication open and reinforce the message that you are there for her.

WoodHeaven · 09/12/2015 16:50

jaylar can you explain to me how it feels to feel like a woman or to feel like a man (in the wrong body)?

It might sound crazy, but I personally do t feel like a woman particularly. I feel I fit the gender of a woman and that in some cases I have voluntaray decided to act like a man would do (eg my attitude and expectation re work/my business).
The function of my sexual organs is what makes me feel like a woman the most.

So if a trans person is to say 'I feel like a woman/man. That's who I am' what do they mean?

mathanxiety · 09/12/2015 20:13

Jaylat, you are clearly a zealot who is not interested in objective debate.

There are lots of lesbians who are aghast at their experiences of transwomen trying to convince them they are transphobic for refusing to have sex with them. Hence the coolness on the part of many in the LGB community towards T people, T women in particular (i.e. men who have retained their penises and testes but insist on being treated as women, using women's spaces alongside women) many of whom in RL and on the internet come across as aggressive, entitled, arrogant, woman haters.

There are teenage girls, born with female bodies, and used to all the negativity that goes along with that one in four will have been sexually assaulted by the age of 18, by a male bodied person who are today being forced to share their loos and showers and locker rooms with male bodied people in schools in the US, thanks to the decisions of various PC courts falling over themselves to protect society against 'gender discrimination'. Meanwhile, efforts to pass legislation on equal pay are defeated.

There are feminists all around the world gnashing their teeth and tearing their hair out wondering how it is that the 'needs' and the 'feelings' of young men about the concept of 'gender', which feminists have fought so long and so hard to kill off, are still being privileged against the interests of those with female bodies.

venusinscorpio · 09/12/2015 20:21

Well said math. Let's see if the caring, logical Jaylat will respond to all your points, as they presumptuously demanded of others.

Italiangreyhound · 09/12/2015 21:42

Excellent post Math.

VashtaNerada · 09/12/2015 23:38

To be fair jay most trans people do not have happily clappy positive stories. Well yes Shortcut, a third of young trans people attempt suicide, it can be awful. That's why it's important we give young people time and support to make up their own minds how they want to live their lives. And many, many people (with the right support) end up living happy, fulfilled lives. It can be a wonderful life too.

AlbusPotter · 12/12/2015 01:09

mathanxiety you need to rethink your use of the word 'zealot' in relation to Jaylat. I laughed out loud when I read your post. Those who commented (I cant be bothered to name them as they are simply not worth my time) and thought it was excellent- you have no idea and to be so small minded in the face of a person who understands the world must be incredibly difficult for you but hey I'm sure you will get there eventually...

AlbusPotter · 12/12/2015 01:16

Out of interest mathanxiety what perspective do you assume jaylat is writing from?

venusinscorpio · 12/12/2015 01:19

Interesting that you LOLed at math's post, Albus. I'm not sure what is so hilariously funny about women's rights being shat all over yet again. Perhaps you'd like to enlighten us all.

AlbusPotter · 12/12/2015 01:26

I didn't use 'lol' fortunately that isn't part of my vocabulary. I fight for women's rights as does Jaylat. We speak for a woman's perspective. And yes I think I am interesting.

AlbusPotter · 12/12/2015 01:27

Love that you are watching the comments on this post Grin

AlbusPotter · 12/12/2015 01:34

Finding the misuse of the word 'zealot' is not laughing out loud at women's rights. Seriously you are overreacting.

venusinscorpio · 12/12/2015 01:38

I'm looking at the active threads. This came up. I don't think you're particularly interesting. More like depressingly predictable. Grin

AlbusPotter · 12/12/2015 01:46

I have been reading your history- you really hate men!! And you lump all of them into the same group. I find this incredibly backward and even more depressing. As do some of your friends you chat with. They presume all men are violent. Even if women are transitioning to men you don't seem to like them either. Who really has the problem here?

AlbusPotter · 12/12/2015 01:52

You tried to bait jaylat who sensibly left this thread a long time ago. As am I now, it's all quite sad that you need to try and bully a person who is going thorough something relevant to the debate and not from the view point you presume, they tried eloquently to answer a thread from the other side and possibly from the young person in question. Says a lot about you.

AlbusPotter · 12/12/2015 02:00

And you just deleted all of this I think I read somewhere that transmen are as violent as men, while transwomen are also as violent as men. Seems that if you work really, really hard on it, you can become as violent as a male ... not that that's something to aspire to. I have to find the data somewhere.

I have no time whatsoever for people like you who post on a thread as sensitive as this.

AlbusPotter · 12/12/2015 02:01

Or have hidden it but I copied it. I don't care what you think venusinscorpio you wrote that and you know you did.