New nursery expects all potential pupils be potty trained, even the 2 year olds.

[FundraisingPTABitch]

That's it really. I'm new to this part of town, and so is this nursery.

When I enquired with the admin about this policy, they said every potential pupil must be potty trained.

AIBU to think this nursery can just fuck off? I will potty train my little child when both the child and I are both ready.

Ludicrous. Irresponsible! Elitist!

My sins autistic noeffing and we are trying to toilet train him me the school and the disability team but I don't envisage it being a short process.

Lots of discussion of special needs, which I find interesting as DD1 falls into this category but only for toilet training.
She has chronic diarrhoea. For ages I didn't even realise that runny poos were not normal in a baby - it was just what she did and had always done so i never thought to mention it to anyone. Until her nursery asked what the GP had said about it....
Cue a very ashamed mother at the GP - DD was about 2 at the time. The GP told me she had something called 'toddler diarrhoea' which in itself wasn't a problem as otherwise DD was well and healthy and thriving. She said it could affect as many as 1 in 5 children and they don't know why, but think it's something to do with maturity of the digestive system (or lack of maturity to be more precise). She also said be prepared for toilet training to be hard.

She wasn't kidding. It was a nightmare, with three false starts before we finally cracked it. (Although she was dry the first time within three days). I washed dirty pants so many times it reduced me to tears - three or four times a day. She was just gone four by the time we managed and even then we had accidents. The private nursery she went to were brilliant. Her school have also been amazing. At 7, she doesn't have accidents any more but when she says 'I need to go' she means NOW. And they have been so supportive. She went to the school nursery at four - I was fully prepared for them to turn her down until she was more reliable (still in nappies when I spoke to them) but they said no, it was a special need and they would adapt like they would for any other.

But she's not SEN in the sense that most people understand it. Thank goodness we were surrounded by supportive professionals and not people who judged or barred her from getting access to things she loved and benefitted from.

I was expecting this thread to turn into an early toilet training competition thread quite early on

My DD didn't get out of nappies until she was 3.10.

No SN. No physiological issues. Purely behavioural.

She just didn't want to. She wouldn't even wet or soil herself: she's withhold ALL DAY until she was crying in pain, but she wouldn't give in.

I tried and tried and tried, and the result was the same every time. I gave up for a while when I was pregnant and crippled with SPD, because I physically couldn't attempt in anymore.

In the end, DD didn't train until I got very tough and very angry and broke her resolve. It was horrendous. I had no idea it was possible for a child to put up such a fight. She still won't use any toilet away from home and would rather withhold when we leave the house. I've no idea how she's going to manage at school.

Whether she had had a special need or not though baby the nursery still wouldn't have been able to turn her down having said that its very uncommon for kids of 4/5 to not be toilet trained with no special needs / disability.

The vast majority of children starting school in nappies will have a disability or medical problems. There are very few in them because the parents were lazy and those in them for that reason will quickly have ss involvement.

Is anyone here bothered about the environmental impact of disposable nappies?

See - www.livestrong.com/article/149890-environmental-impact-of-disposable-diapers/

I used cloth ones nearly all the time, and do think that the way they are less absorbent, gives toddlers a much better sense of what their bodies are doing.

This is in America.

"But over the last few decades, the age at which toddlers become diaper-free has been creeping upward. In 1957, 92 percent of children were toilet-trained by the age of 18 months, studies found. Today the figure for 2-year-olds is just 4 percent, according to a large-scale Philadelphia study. Only 60 percent of children have achieved mastery of the toilet by 36 months, the study found, and 2 percent remain untrained at the age of 4 years.

Moreover, though there are no hard statistics on them, pediatricians say they are seeing more children with toilet-training problems, including withholding of urine and stool, chronic constipation, and wetting and soiling by older children. Dr. Bruce Filmer, an associate professor at Thomas Jefferson University Medical School in Philadelphia, for example, says he and other pediatric urologists have noticed an increase in referrals of young patients experiencing problems with both daytime and nighttime urinary control."

www.nytimes.com/1999/01/12/us/two-experts-do-battle-over-potty-training.html?pagewanted=all

And I never get the lazy argument anyway I still have to change my disabled e5 yr old several times a day is that lazy? I would love him to be toilet trained I can't imagine there are many parents who don't train a typical child just because they can't be bothered!

Or how about this. Back in the day, pre schools and nurseries were very few, as women tended to stay at home and look after the kids at home until they went to school. We are more open now about what our children are doing, in particular toilet training, we tend to compare more. I believe people tended to be more reserved back in the day, about that type of thing. So if your dc was 3 and still having accidents or not ready, then you kept quiet, by the time they went to school at 4.5-5 years they will probably have cracked it.

Exactly boys, it is harder to change a poo nappy, than for them to independently take themselves to the toilet, oh the joy, I can't wait until ds finally cracks it, come on ds were going on 4 in Jan .

I think there is something to that aero- moms did stay at home more, they probably had more time to spend training one year olds, didn't want to deal with the terry towels any more and didn't want to be seen as not keeping up with the Jones'. Now there are many recognised ways to go about parenting, although no less judgement it seems, and people do acknowledge that children learn at different rates.

That being said, I witness parents talking about potty training "when the child is ready", but what they actually mean is when they are ready, children can take on board a lot more than adults give them credit for, IME.

I have a nt child who took a long time to train. there are other additional needs, eg hypermobility syndrome which makes training difficult.

children can have all sorts of additional needs that are not diagnosed to well into school years that would have had an effect on their ability to train.

"Also I know baby boomer age people brought up when childcare experts were saying you shouldn't show young children and babies too much affection, as it will only "spoil" them. This makes me very sad for them."

That's not completely true.

The big name (pre-Spock) book was Illingworth and Illingworth (mentioned above) and that was very much 'if your baby cries, pick it up', 'you cannot spoil a young baby'. People are often surprised how "modern" it all was.

People also forget how horrible using cloth nappies was when washing machine technology was so different to today. And so potting a baby after meals from an early age, saving a few wet/dirty ones was labour-saving then. If early potting, then the habit becomes reliable much earlier. So children then were dry/clean by day from two-ish, because - to reduce labour - they were habituated in ways that are just not contemplated today, mainly because the arrival of disposables and good washing machines mean that it's no longer the least laborious way of dealing with eliminations.

Also button, there was a stigma then, if your child was still in nappies, or having accidents, you kept quiet, you did not tell your friends or relatives. My mums cousins ds, who is now in his 50's was not dry until over 4, and my mum remembers inviting a friend who had a 3 year old, back in the 1970's, she weed all over her carpet. It was kept private.

Oh yes, the stigma. My younger sister was really late potty training even though she did like so many babies back in the day spend half her waking hours on the cursed potty. It was a great big family secret, I understood that even as a child.

She's got a PhD now and is very successful, it wasn't her lack of talent or my parents' lack of will. My mum would most certainly have said of course she's trained if asked. Nowadays people can be more honest and maybe that warps the data a bit.

Does it really matter? I waited until it was warm enough to peg wet clothes out, until she was old enough to speak properly, until all molars were through and I knew that teething poo was Over with, and finally until she'd finished intensive physio from her operation. I reckon she would have cracked it sooner but we all had enough going on. She was nearly 3 but we went straight from nappy to toilet and no filthy potties to deal with. She is reliable, will communicate and I don't have to remind her.

My nephew started potty training at 2, he was nearly 3 when he became properly trained. I just can't see how carting around a bloody potty everywhere for a year and reminding your child every 20 mins to go is worth it. Plus all those accidents, what's the point?

DS is nearly 2.5, I'm sure I could give it a crack now but we are due DC3 any day and I'm not going to even bother unless he wants to. Oh yes we play at sitting on the toilet and he knows how to do it, but he wants his nappy and I don't want the aggro.

Can I win a lazy parent gold star please?

Yes im sure disposable nappies have pushed back toilet training a good few months but I'm sure they've saved many a parents sanity as well.

I agree captain just because French children are taken backwards and forwards to the toilet all day in nursery and children in the UK maybe left a bit later untill they understand the need to go doesn't mean that the French child is any more toilet trained then the British child in pull ups neither child as neither can understand it take themselves independently to the toilet.

I'd look for somewhere else. If they can't be bothered to change nappies. What else can't they be bothered to do. Also even potty trained babies can have their accidents. It's unrealistic to expect every 2 year old to be potty trained.
I also agree with a fellow poster about it being discrimination, against children who may not be potty trained due to medical reasons.
I'm sorry but changing nappies is part of a nursery nurse's job. Yes its not a nice part of the job but they know when tgey go into the profession that tgey will encounter shitty nappies.

Yes we have done this tiggy as I said ds2 has asd and learning disabilities he is also non verbal we are attempting toilet training now because he is showing some signs he might be ready he takes his nappy off when its wet or soiled and he has large gaps in between wee,s all signs I,m told he might be ready to be trained albeit at five and a half!

I started a few threads here as DC1 was starting nursery (preschool not private) and had to be dry.

He started nursery literally the day after his 3rd Birthday and despite numerous attempts to toilet train over the summer he was struggling and I was losing my shit pun intended

I spoke to nursery staff who were very much "we'll see where he is when he is due to start but we expect him to be dry". He finally started to crack it a month before nursery (so he was 2.11) but he was still having the odd accident, and still bare bummed at home.

I have to say he has coped amazingly - not one accident but had he needed to be dry when he had just turned 2 there would be no way on Earth it would have happened.

"My mother (a midwife in the 1950s) says most children were trained at a year."

Marciapex how on earth can a one year old communicate that they need the toilet? MIL is convinced that SIL was trained at 13 months. She then went on to say that she had plenty of accidents, so clearly she wasn't trained at all.

DD couldn't even walk at 12 months, let alone let me know that she needed or wanted anything, and she has no special needs.

I love the way MN'ers just assume people can change nurseries / find alternative childcare at the drop of a hat.

My DC needs to attend the preschool he does for many reasons not least logistics [it's close to home and my sister has kids there so she can pick DC1 up for me when I go back to work]

I also doubt it's policy because staff "can't be bothered" to change nappies. Often preschools do not have the facilities for bum changing - the one my DC attends doesn't although one could argue a changing mat in a quiet corner would suffice

Accidents are expected in preschool but my DC's nursery has made it clear if there is an accident then I will be called to come and change him.

Preschools tend to be a lot more geared towards independence of the children etc... so I personally would not choose a preschool for a 2 year old.

I think 'trained at a year' could be a garble, but that was a fairly typical age where people would start holding out over a potty to encourage the development of the habit of eliminating at certain times.

Remember that was the only labour saving method they had then (in the days of cloth nappies, cold water twin tubs and no tumble driers) thus encouraging convenient habits, that would be well engrained by age two.

Bunbaker They were just put on a potty after each meal or feed. Apparently it does work.

No one wanted to wash/boil terry nappies a day longer than they had to.

The old family photos of us as toddlers do show us clearly in pants not nappies... (But we were all girls.)