New nursery expects all potential pupils be potty trained, even the 2 year olds.

[FundraisingPTABitch]

That's it really. I'm new to this part of town, and so is this nursery.

When I enquired with the admin about this policy, they said every potential pupil must be potty trained.

AIBU to think this nursery can just fuck off? I will potty train my little child when both the child and I are both ready.

Ludicrous. Irresponsible! Elitist!

this thing about children who have wet and soiled themselves being made to wait untill their parents could come to school to clean them up how does the law stand on that ? i had somebody on another thread telling me it was a child protection issue and they couldnt clean children up thankfully my ds attends a special needs school so his needs are met i did question wether it was a duty of care issue leaving a child in wet and soiled clothes but apparently not.

Someone upthread asked what being potty trained actually meant. Dd started preschool in September, at 3 yrs 4mo and there she's expected to realise she needs the loo, stop what she's doing, go to the toilet, sort out her clothes herself, wash her hands with soap, dry her hands, flush the loo. I know some 2yos might be able to do that but surely not the norm?

Excellent posts tiggytape. That's it exactly. You can't just "make an exception" for childen who have toiletting issues because these children are indistinguishable from the general population at age 2 or 3.

I have been blamed for my DD's toiletting issues many times, explicitly or implicitly. It's my fault for training her too early, or too late, or by being too lazy, or putting her under too much stress. I get it from both the early training camp and the "leave it until they're ready" camp. I really can't win. Luckily we have access to ERIC, enuresis nurses and pediatric urologists, and they tend to be a bit more enlightened.

X2boys this eric leaflet suggests on p13 that leaving soiled children is unlikely to be legal but the reference is not strong. This thread shows that discrimination still happens. I am sure I've read somewhere that children with continence issues should have an ICP in place which would cover whether they'd be changed, but I can't find a reference now. In practice, most schoolchildren can do most of the sorting out themselves. They mainly just need a bit of guidance and back up, and access to wipes etc.

In what way is it ridiculous? I'm 35 and the nursery I went to wouldn't allow a child to attend unless they were potty trained. Surely it's the prerogative of the establishment what the entry criteria are. Granted some kids are slower to do things than others but if the nursery don't want to employ people to change nappies why should they have to? It isn't elitist or in any way discrimination. It's the same as any other entry or selection criteria isn't it?

Mummy have you learned nothing from the last 13 pages? The bit about it being illegal, for example?

Is the OP in the UK, because it wouldn't be illegal in Canada.
If this is in the UK, how long do you think the business would be able to continue to maintain it's license?

I would imagine that mummy is one of those posters who simply doesn't have the time to read all the other responses so merely responds to the OP, without reference to any other input on the thread.

Oops, italic fail.

My mother tells me that when she was child raising in the late 70's / early 80's all the nursery schools & daycare nurseries she looked at would not let DCs start until they were toilet trained (a potty was not acceptable either). My mother maintains that back then because Terry Towling nappies were normal and were so unpleasant most DC were trained much earlier, hence I was able to start nursery age 2 1/2 along with many peers who were 2 1/2.

I'd be very surprised if the nursery in question was allowed to have such policies nowadays, I'd imagine it'd fall under disability discrimination.

mumm how ironic then, that an establishment dealing with todders cannot clean up wee or poo, which is part and parcel of being a toddler, especially when you are prepared to admit 2 year olds, not even 3+. If yiu read teacher2kds information you will realise it is discriminatory to prevent enters to nursery/preschool on any part of development, yes that includes toilet training.

A day centre for the elderly would not be able to do that, so why should a pre school, same thing. Why should children get the raw end of the deal.

I used to work in such a setting, if an elderly client had an accident or needed their incontinence nappy changed, we would do it! We would be hauled over the coals if we refused.

Not only that, if you are providing a service to 2 year olds, it can be anything from just 2, to nearly 3, you have got to be involved with helping and supporting toilet training!

me to Aeroflotgirl i worked in a dementia setting for many years and whilst dealing with incontinence is not a pleasent part of the job its necessary and we had a duty of care to the patients we couldnt just leave them wet and soiled so why is it acceptable to leave young children wet and soiled?

Some are just a nightmare. Dd2 was totally resistant and we didn't crack it properly till she was around 3 and a half. She had been out of nappies since 2.8 .

Dd1 on the other hand was dry during the day at 2.4.

No special needs, just arsey and couldn't see the problem with weeing into her pants.

Exactly x2boys imagine changing an adult nappie with adult poo. It had to be done, it was part of my job, even though I was on minimum wage. It was a duty of care for us to do it. We coukd never ever say, sorry your incontinent, you can't be admitted. My ds, 3.11 years has a speech and a bit of a dev delay, is not yet toilet trained, tried when he was 2, no in April, were still not getting it. Thank god his nursery is supporting us, as a result he is able to run to the toilet take down his pants and sit on it, but not on time. He starts school in sept, so we still have a bit of time.

Funnily enough, my moderately Autistic dd8 who has much more of a dev delay, was dry and taking herself to the toilet, at just 3. She cracked it in a couple of weeks and has been reliable since. What is going on with ds. He is more defiant too, it's behavioural. When the teacher asked him to go to the toilet at nursery, he told her no, he was far too busy playing. So tgere you go. Children also start school very early in tge UK, in my mums country in Armenia, the school start age is 7, in some European countries too.

Yes op, report that setting to Ofstead, totally unacceptable.

Tbh I wouldn't have wanted anyone who saw dd2 as 'unpleasant' for not being reliably toilet trained within a 2 mile radius of her.

now thats interesting cressendra according to the eric leaflet you kindly linked leaving a child in a wet or soiled nappy for any length of time is abuse ie schools waiting for parents to come and change children that have been incontinent so they are actually breaking the law ?

teacherwith2kids

I will PM you. But I need to get my balls in order.

to be honest tobysmum

I feel that the moment I started this thread I was admitting to myself that I could not in good conscience even entertain this nursery as an option for my child.

I started this thread to validate that my feelings as a mother were right. Normally, if something seems outrageous to me I just keep quiet and do my own thing.

This time though, I needed to start a thread. To show myself the whole concept of only accepting potty trained 2 yr olds was ridiculous.

I'm usually a very quiet, very passive person. This potty training policy though is detrimental on a few levels.

This isn't the only instance of behaviour I am dealing with from a nursery.

xboys that is my understanding too.