To expect a phone call and backing from another parent?

[MJ686]

My first post here, advice needed please.

Put yourself in my shoes please ..

Single mum of 16yr old daughter. She has an 18yr old boyfriend, she met him in July. She had asked me previously if she could have a sleep over at his house, the answer from me was NO. She ran away and stayed with her elder brother for a fortnight during an almighty row with me about putting her boyfriend before her studies. I've since found out that she's had sex with her boyfriend and that whilst staying at her brothers she has been allowed by the boyfriend's Mum and Dad to sleep over at their house and sleep in the boyfriend's bed with him.

Shocked, hurt and angry are only a few of the emotions I am feeling right now, but I think the worst is the betrayal I feel from the other parents. Isn't there an unspoken parental code where we are all supposed to back each other up and support each other? I know if my 18yr old son had brought a girl home and said, "Hey, it's ok if we sleep together here tonight, Mum, you're cool with that, right?" Well, firstly, I wouldn't ever allow that as I am not as liberal as I am being told I should be! And secondly, even if I was liberal, I would have said, "Whoa! Hold your horses Boy, does her Mum know she's here and does she have permision for that? Yes? Ok, let's just check shall we, what's your Mum's number, let me give her a call".

I asked my daughter if his Mum had even spoken to her about contraception or safe sex, of course the answer was NO, yet she willingly allowed them to sleep together, during a time that SHE KNEW my daughter was having a teenage strop and arguing with me, so she was hardly in a place where she wanted to talk to me about being safe, she was in a vunerable place and still his parents allowed this.

I'm so very angry about this and can't see how I can get over how I feel. The two kids are, of course, professing undying love for each other and telling me I should just "get over it as not everyone has the same morals as you" and "everyone's doing it now, it's normal for 16yr olds" "you come from a different era" and "wouldn't you rather we were doing it somewhere safe". God, I haven't even met his parents, but I hate them already.

I've had a chat with my daughter this evening and am positive about our meeting tomorrow, she even asked me to bring some things home for her.

I'm not trying to raise a repressed teenager nor take control of her in the way that many of you are making out. I am just trying to work through things and find the best outcome for my family. It's small and broken but hopefully, still good.

I am fascinated by so many of you saying ... 'her body, her rules' and with that, I ask those posters this question ...

Where do we as parents draw the line on that then? Your Body - Your Rules?
Would you Mums and Dads who say this, also allow your 16 year old daughter to walk out in a skirt that shows her knickers? Or get a tattoo across her face? Do you just say, 'Oh, you look lovely darling'?

Where do we draw the line and stop giving them rules then?

Just be grateful they're not doing it in the car -like me & my ex at 17 due to strict parents-

But she isn't a '16 yr old child' - she is not yet an adult but she is old enough to get married with permission.
When you call it 'pandering' I wonder if you actually have a 16 yr old?
I heard of a sad case last week where a 16 yr old is having problems keeping up with school work because she is staying with friends and moving around. This is because her parents don't approve of her boyfriend and gave the ultimatum- she did what a lot would do and moved out. Life is now a struggle but she won't give in and go home. Her parents would have been much better having her at home and concentrating on her school work to give her options.
Some 16 yr olds are very mature. My friend, strict Methodist, had a 16 yr old who announced she was off to the doctor to go on the pill. She didn't make a big thing of it, was just adamant she didn't agree with her mother and that is what she was going to do. She was a lovely girl, sensible and hard working. What point was there in giving ultimatums?
OP needs to communicate with the DD that she has- to say 'don't pander to a child' is fine if you are prepared to take the consequences.

Last bit was supposed to be crossed ouut!

Would you Mums and Dads who say this, also allow your 16 year old daughter to walk out in a skirt that shows her knickers? Or get a tattoo across her face? Do you just say, 'Oh, you look lovely darling'?

Neither. I could not prevent her from doing so, and would not try, but I would encourage her to think about the implications and consequences of her choices for herself.

I don't think "rules" for the sake of rules are ever appropriate -what is important is that you teach your DC to think for themselves and make informed decisions.

OP I've not rtft but I've read everything you said. I think you need to show your daughter the same openness and willingness to listen that you've shown on this thread.

Don't worry about how other people parent their children or expect them to act in loco parentis to your child. They are probably treating her as more grown up then you because they haven't got the same empathy with your dd's situation as you. In fact they can probably see things more clearly than you.

It must be so hard to see your child make steps into adulthood. 16 is a good age to start exploring. She has to start learning somewhere and if her first bf is actually a friend that seems like a healthy start. Welcome him a bit more, get to know him. Be kind to your dd.

There's much worse ways she could be learning about sex. Teens do some silly cold things. Not everything is loving. Sometimes teens hook up casually. I think your dd starting to learn about sex in a loving relationship is better than the alternative. It's a credit to her well-adjusted-ness and how you've raised her.

As long as she's using condoms and gets sorted out with the pill stop worrying. You don't have to let them have sex at your house, but be aware that might push her into his family more as they are more welcoming.

By 16yrs you hopefully have a good relationship to discuss things and work compromises. What happens with very strict parents is that the child is very good at being devious and secretive and they are quite different- you only see the side that you want and not the 'real' them.
Even very respectable people like Jenni Murray on woman's hour used to dress in mother chosen clothes to a mother chosen activity- keep clothes and make up with a friend and go off to a disco- then wash her face, change back and go home to tell her mother all about the evening at her 'mother chosen activity'.
I would prefer compromise.

Pretty no I don't think you should throw out a 16 year old who breaks house rules. My eldest dd is 17 she doesn't do a she pleases. She is still at school we still receive child benefit for her, she is still our responsibility.

16 is not a child supermanspants. You can get married at 16 without needing parental permission here in Scotland.

But why does she need to convince you? I accept that parental approval is a strong motivator, but unless there is emotional abuse, surely a parent teaches their child automony, rather than expecting their D's to justify their decisions in order for their parents to give their blessing?

Because the vast majority of 16 year olds know that they still need protection, guidance and financial support. When they don't need all those things, then fine, they are old enough to make the decision.

We'd all agree that a 13 year old is much too young, even if that 13 year old has gone through puberty. (At least I assume we'd all agree.) We'd think so because although his or her body had matured, we would know as adults that sex would be too much for a 13 year old to handle and that they are not mature enough to give informed consent. Some kids may be mature enough 3 years later, I don't think most are. Those who are should have the onus on them to prove it. Because the consequences of getting it wrong, I believe are more profound than having to wait a bit when you think you are ready.

By 16yrs you find out how good your parenting was and you hope they have common sense, self discipline and are prepared to take advice.
If they haven't it is all a bit late to impose it. You have to listen as well as talk and work out solutions.

settling prove to whom? Their parents? And what are the consequences if they don't satisfactorily prove to you that they ARE mature enough?

How can you stop them?

This mythical way in which teens comply with their parents "because their parents know better" is still not being explained.

I think there are 3 ways

1. Open rebellion, rows and move out- even though it is obviously difficult.
2. Outwardly seem to conform but have a secret life.
3. Do as they are told but harbour resentment and it makes for a difficult relationship.

Nowhere do I see an option where they happily do exactly as they are told and have a great relationship with the parent- paper over and both forget it happened.

I'm in my sixties and times have changed.

But my mother would have been more than surprised at the idea that it was her job to let my GF's parents know when she was staying over (which began when I was 18 and she was 17) and she would have pissed herself laughing at the suggestion that she should have done the safe-sex talk with somebody else's daughter.

It is difficult for parents to transition when their offspring become young adults rather than old children.Your DD is not quite an adult, but there needs to be a sea change in the way you parent her.getting into a head on battle of wills is to be avoided because you won't win.You are a mentor now not a boss

You have no right to tell a 16yo how to dress, no.

Tattoos are illegal for -18 so that's a different matter.

I think you are taking things really well OP. It must be very hard you had a religious upbringing where virginity was prized, to break free of that and live in a society with a broader range of views must be unsettling.

I can see why you had a gut instinct of 'omg she's has sex everything is ruined' even if intellectually you can see that this no longer really applies. To many of us without your background it is 'just' another important life experience, to be tried when you feel ready. It doesn't define you, or affect your future.

If you communicate with your daughter as well as you can with a bunch of random internetters (some of whom are hell bent on picking a fight) I think you will do just fine.

Good luck, and don't be put off ( relationships board is less flighty if you just want advice)

I'm not saying that anyone can outright control a 16 year old.

I am saying that parents to 16 year olds still have a lot if responsibility. As a society we do not treat 16 year olds as full adults. They cannot vote, they cannot drive, they cannot have a tattoo, they must be in full time education or training, etc. So, I am surprised that so many posters would facilitate the sexual activity of a 16 year old under their roof without wanting to know what that 16 year old's parents' attitude was. I wouldn't presume that all parents have a casual, laissez-faire attitude.

Some families may have conservative, traditional ideas about virginity. Others may simply be concerned about their daughters emotional well being and her ability to cope with the increased intimacy/vulnerability.

I'm sorry to say this, but from you mentioning that your daughter started calling this boy her boyfriend after running away- it seems as though your behaviour is pushing her and him closer to one another, do you manage to have conversations where you can both express yourselves without her running away??

It wasn't that long ago that I was 16, and I will tell you, digesting whatever they have will only make them feel closer to one another, common enemy being you, she knows how you feel, be polite and don't say anything negative, it may just fall apart and you may never have to see his face again, but what is wrong with him?

Until the age of 16 I think most are ta will take into accunt of the child's parents views, after that age, they are no longer children and their view counts more than their parents.

You can't expect that they change the way they act in their household, and what they allow, when they've never met you and chances are, have no idea how you feel abut this.

In regards to his parents having the safe sex talk with her, this wild have seriously been overstepping a line.

The first time me and my husband ever had words (not any words you'll understand, but where I'd had to lay down the law) was when I find out that my now MIL went shopping with him and picked out condoms to bring with him for his first stay at my house....it went a little bit like, my mum went to look for the car seat with me (was for my dd, as I didn't drive I didn't have one for his car and he wanted to choose and buy one) which was good, because that put us by boots, and she reminded me to buy condoms.

That was nice, but what? She took you to buy condoms? Couldn't you doing yourself? I'm not sure how to feel about that... Your 25 you can do that on your own, and I obviously use protection but is she accusing me of having stds? Is she always this over involved? That's so weird, don't let her take control again, it's nothing to do with her. It weirded me out because she had crossed a line big time.

But none of that is the responsibility of the boyfriends family. Are you somehow thinking that the parents are in loco parentis in the situation?

I would be particularly concerned about the potential consequence of telling conservative parents that their daughter was sexually active, or even just planning to be. It might be very detrimental for the girl, far more problematic than having safe consensual legal sex.

What if she had told them she was staying at a female friends house and the consequence of being found out is that she gets beaten up by her parents?

I would have called you Op. my brother had his 16 year old gf stay and my mum called her mum to ask her if she was aware of it and if she was OK with it.

I'd have phoned you, OP, in much the same way as U2's mum had the conversation in her brother's case. And while I might not have had a full on sit-down chat with the bf/gf I can see myself bringing up contraception with the partners of my sons/daughters (and my sons/daughters, obviously), in a 'I hope you've got that covered' kind of way.

No fucking way do I want any of them dealing with teenage pregnancy.

But she isn't a '16 yr old child' - she is not yet an adult but she is old enough to get married with permission. When you call it 'pandering' I wonder if you actually have a 16 yr old?

I have 17 year old twin girls. I also work with teenagers.

Yes..... a 16 year old is a child

From the NSPCC:
'England, Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland each have their own guidance for organisations to keep children safe. They all agree that a child is anyone who is under the age of 18'

Those of you who would ring the other parents or expect the other parents to ring you is that usually how sleepovers happen in your houses with your teenagers?

Yes..... because this is just the same isn't it

What is your advice as to HOW the OP can enforce her will onto a 16 year old who is having legal, consentual sex with her 18 year old BF?

It is also legal for a 5 to 16 year old to drink alcohol in their own home or on private premises. I will assume you don't have an issue with that either.

A shame that you view this as the OP 'enforcing her will'.