To think that Hilary Benn should

[Sallyingforth]

take over as Labour leader right now.
He has time to rebuild the party into a credible opposition before the next election. With Corbyn in charge the Tories will walk it.

I find all of that quite frightening Elendon

Just like I can't fathom why on the news last night a representative for Left Unity/Momentum couldn't see that the abuse MPs are getting is wrong.

This is Melanie Onn and Bianca Todd on Channel 4 news discussing Momentum's attack of MPs who voted for the airstrikes.

I've always voted labour and I'm going to join the party to vote against him, next time there's a ballot. I may be in the odd position of being a party member that doesn't vote labour if he does stay as leader - thank goodness for the secret ballot!

Mr insincere yorkshire pudding and Mr sincere wet lettuce facing each other across the house. It's a hopeless spectacle.

Very well put. Neither looks attractive to me.

Sorry to multiple post.

This is Benn talking before the vote took place.

I am confused by those claiming Corbyn doesn't present ideas. His ideas may not be dramatic and loud (and murderous), but then that is precisely the reason he is the best thing to happen to UK politics for a long time.

I can't see what the whole fuss is about his speech? It was the usual 'call to arms' crap they all prattle on about.

Corybn has said we should not bomb ISIS in Syria

but what has he put forward that could be done

not sure how he can be described as the finest thing to happen to british politics for a long time when he is unable to offer an alternative to what is likely to be his the biggest issue that he will ever have to deal with being leader of the opposition

its complex I expect the leader of the opposition (especially the party that I support) to be able to handle, debate and offer alternatives to what can be done not just oppose to what is being done

Yes, that's right OrangeRevel we're all clamouring for 'loud, murderous' ideas, the lack of which is exactly the substance of our criticism of Corbyn

His ideas may not be dramatic and loud (and murderous)

No need for sly digs

He should be ashamed of himself. His father would turn in his grave

Have you actually got any political comment? Or is this your only argument because it is really very weak and pretty offensive.

Ashamed of what? That in a democracy - and a free vote - he spoke the way his conscience dictated?

I thought Benn spoke well - I don't know whether he influenced anyone in the Commons. I don't think on the basis of one speech it is possible to ascertain whether he is leadership material.

YANBU, and very intelligent, I hope that you continue to post in future:

"But whichever party is in government I think a strong opposition is essential to a healthy democracy. It's my considered opinion that the Labour party is not an effective opposition at the moment, and that Benn, who I have been watching for some time, could change that."

The only way Labour can win again is by appealing to centrist voters, Corbyn may increase the turnout in some areas but it's hard to imagine him having much appeal in places like St Albans who voted for Tony Blair.

A Morning Star columnist in a Daily Mail country....

Eh, enthusiasm? So by your logic should we bomb syria because we don't have any immediate, better solutions

Corbyn and others suggest lots of things: arms control for a start.

I think that when Cameron's bland mask slips there are glimpses of real meanness, entitlement to power, visible irritation that he's being challenged and low insults, such as calling people who disagree with the bombing "terrorist sympathisers" and refusing to apologise.

Arms control!? Throughout the Middle East? How?

H Benn should be ashamed of himself. He was blatantly referencing Hitler, Churchill and all the rest of it with his talk of fighting fascim (which this isn't) - riding on the coat-tails of past conflicts etc. It was grandstanding bullshit and no way should he be leader.

I have no idea, but it makes no sense to bomb somewhere because other interventions are difficult.

Duck controlling arms in the region isn't difficult, it's completely impossible.

There is so much about this particular situation, and Daesh themselves that make solutions very very difficult and choices very limited.

This is a completely different scenario to the Gulf Wars.

I think the media is already beginning to build the narrative of Benn as "more credible than Corbyn".

Because they'll seize on anyone who they can declare more credible than Corbyn.

I thought it was a good speech but so what? He's still wrong.

The awful Brendan O'Neill who nevertheless is right about this even though he's awful

There are itar restrictions in place on arms trade. Obv certain countries are considered allies

Instead of talking about Corbyn's plans, what we should all be concerned with are Cameron's plans, given that he appears to have none apart from 'bomb Syria'. What is he hoping to achieve by that? Where is the strategy? Does he have any long term goals? Does he have any short term goals, indeed? Because all I can hear coming from him is an insistence on extending a policy of bombing that has so far caused epic amounts of harm vis the civilians of the countries being bombed, the infrastructure of the countries being bombed, and which has led to the terrorists' reach being vastly increased. And not only that, but the country that he is going to extend it to is one where other conflicting international interests come into play. How does he propose to square what he's doing with, say, Putin? For all of the debate the other day, it was remarkably content-light.

On the night that Labour secured a great win in Oldham, John McDonnell was attending this meeting, the launch of Momentum in Lambeth.

www.brixtonbuzz.com/2015/12/shadow-chancellor-john-mcdonnell-launches-lambeth-momentum-movement-at-lambeth-academy-with-calls-for-local-labour-party-members-to-become-more-active/

And at this meeting there was a petition to de select Chukka Umunna, plus on each seat a leaflet from SP, ex Militant.

To close:"Ruth Cashman summed up the mood for the Lambeth Momentum movement at the close:

“The Labour Council is fighting against us. We can’t tell people that Labour is the way to kick out the Tories when we have a local party here in Lambeth that is mocking us.”"

Benn's speach was written for those who were in agreement with the Torres. Nothing but propaganda!

YABU. And you are also having a laugh I think.

Actually I believe Hilary and Tony Benn would be delighted to sit down with a cup of tea and discuss the issue. My feeling is that whilst they have a huge amount in common particularly the internationalist movement there would be a good argument to be had.
I find it hard to disagree with Corbyn on anything.I am a disillusioned Labour voter who rejoined the party to vote for him. I left over the Iraq choice.
Hilary Benn says he wants to be Foreign Secretary and I think he'd be very good.

I was really hoping this said AIBU to think that Hillary Benn should fuck off to the far side of fuck, and when he gets there, fuck off some more.