To think that Hilary Benn should

[Sallyingforth]

take over as Labour leader right now.
He has time to rebuild the party into a credible opposition before the next election. With Corbyn in charge the Tories will walk it.

I like the idea of socialism I wish we were a socialist country but we are not

some of his ideas I like but liking an idea and it being practical are not the same thing

what solution or ideas has he put forward to deal with ISIS for example? Everyone is well aware that things could get worse and that there maybe and is likely to be innocent casualties, things could not be much worse for many people living in Syria at the moment yet this is his stance so what exactly would Corbyn do if he were PM (which he will never ever be)

Maybebabybee - I think any Labour leader will be unelectable unless, like Blair, they gain the support of the largely Tory press. So many voters take at face value the views of the Mail, the Sun and the Times that it will be almost impossible to have a Labour govt again.

What ideas were put forward for going to war?
The main argument (that overhead/heard) seems to be that we are the only country that can use the brimstone bombs and paveway bombs. But that isn't true, is it?. They've been purported as British missiles, but that not true either as they are made by a French (mainly) company. They are available for sale on the open market and its ironic who the largest export country is.

I've googled corbyns garden and get loads of photos of him holding a marrow :o

this is patronizing to that people who vote for moderate politicians - we're not all controlled by the media. Most people don't want to pay much higher taxes, they want other people to pay higher taxes instead. Corbyn's policies don't have much detail, but it's clear a massive expansion in funding would be needed.

He's unelectable because he's too idealistic, too weak, too much on the wing. Perfectly nice man, not a leader, not a statesman. Foreign policy is a very definite specific weakness, I cringed when I heard him talk about nuclear weapons. He sounded just like many f us did when we were idealistic, starry-eyed sixth-formers, which is lovely, but sweet sixth formers can not handle despots gone rogue.

well unless the labour leader works on gaining the middle voters and floating voters we shall never be back in power and that takes working with the press

Blair had a hard time from the press at first but he was not foolish enough to think it didn't matter

The main argument (that overhead/heard) seems to be that we are the only country that can use the brimstone bombs and paveway bombs

Nope. I sat through most of the ten hours and that wouldn't figure in any summary I was mad enough to attempt.

I like the idea of socialism I wish we were a socialist country but we are not

I don't. We are a mixed economy but the balance has swung too far towards a small band of capitalist vested interests - Corbyn policies could address that but "popular wisdom" (actually a few hacks in the media) suggests that even considering them should have us running screaming - what a surprise - the vested interests trying to preserve the status quo. I think there are a lot of people very worried that Corbyn might make a few people realise that a lot of ordinary people are getting shafted by Tory and Tory-lite policies.

Agree with this ^^

Politics is in the end about power - getting it and using it. You have to be very smart, and you have be a bit ruthless, and you have to know when to compromise and be strategic, and you have to be able to take people with you.

To change the world you have to get your hands a bit dirty.

I can't see any evidence of Corbyn having those qualities.

iPaid, mainstream media are loyal to "establishment" figures, but I'm not sure this is so closely tied to left-right politics (although there is a correlation).
I'd say it's not Corbyn's leftish views per se which mean that he will never be allowed to retain/gain influence. It's the fact that his ideas are at odds with the interests of powerful estalishment networks (have a look at the Guardian's coverage of the Bilderberg conference), including the international super-rich, which essentially control the public's views via the mainstream media.
It's interesting that current social media (Twitter, etc.) have had encroaching power to partially circumvent the mainstream media, which is a big threat to the establishment. Also very interesting that the power of governments to monitor and control what is expressed on the internet is now being very quickly increased by stealth ("for national security"). Did you notice that there's now a leaflet being handed out to help parents spot extremism in their teenagers. Two signs to look out for: "showing a mistrust of mainstream media reports" and "feeling angry about government policies".

(By this ^^ I meant strawberry tealeaf's post of 11.28)

what solution or ideas has he put forward to deal with ISIS for example?

Well none, but I don't think there is a straightforward solution for dealing with ISIS. I don't agree with airstrikes however. I think we need to take responsibility for the fact that we (the west, I mean) are quite responsible for the fact they exist in the fact and try to deal with the route cause of why a significant number of young british men and women are so brainwashed they feel the need to go out there and fight alongside them. I think 'bomb the fuck out of IS' is way too simplistic. It doesn't deal with the problem. It doesn't fight the root cause.

The problem is people say you're making excuses for terrorists when you say that, and I'm not, I just think it can't be looked at in a black and white fashion because it doesn't help anyone.

"Weak" is the opposite of how I view Corbyn. It seems that "strength" of character is often conflated with a willingness to bully, shout, write glossy nationalistic (and yet often meaningless) speeches and screw over the genuinely weak and oppressed.

I also agree that Corbyn has got a lot of strength of character, namely because he seems to stick by his principles even when they're unpopular. I respect that even if I don't always agree with said principles. Unlike DC and co who will say anything as long as it resonates with public opinion.

strawberrytealeaf: "sweet sixth formers can not handle despots gone rogue."

Perhaps not. But then, look at Blair. He came out really tough on one despot gone wrong - Saddam Hussein - and who, hand on heart, can say that worked out well?

I also agree that Corbyn has got a lot of strength of character, namely because he seems to stick by his principles

I agree. I have friends in his constituency. They all say he is a good constituency MP but have huge doubts and concerns that he is a 'leader' of the party.

But - again I am not being goady, I am genuinely asking - why is he not 'leader' material?

I watch DC, for instance, in the House of Commons and I think . Every word that comes out of his mouth feels utterly insincere to me.

but it is his job to put forward at least some ideas he is leader of the opposition not a backbencher and he is not even doing that I am sure this will lead to MP's rebelling against him now isn't the time

We maybe partly responsible we haven't fixed issues that we intended to do, Afghanistan has been at war for years, Iraq society had huge divisions both had problems long before the Gulf war the situation in Syria is also partly to do with the Arab Spring, people in the ME rebelling against their corrupt governments

The west is an easy for ISIS and other groups to use come and fight the west (which was never the intention until recently for ISIS) its part of their propaganda but ISIS war was against other Muslims and non Muslims that should not be forgotten in all this

Perhaps not. But then, look at Blair. He came out really tough on one despot gone wrong - Saddam Hussein - and who, hand on heart, can say that worked out well?

But that wasn't for reasns of principle at all was it? That was a cynical Bush-lead affair that should never have happened.

So much of what leaders do isn't really visible to us. It's how they handle cabinet (or shadow cabinet) meetings and all the behind the scenes stuff. It just is the case that Labour have such a mountain to climb to get elected, and comparing Corbyn to Cameron and saying 'well Cameron looks insincere' is just unrealistic.

You have to compare it to the way women have to be at least twice as good as men to get to the top. Corbyn needs to be more adept at handling the media and able to make Labour MPs follow him and hold the Tories to account so that they are actually worried by him and communicate with the country as a whole (not just his facebook followers) and offer an alternative that people think is better and workable and realistic and get opinion formers in business on his side.

If he can do all that he has a chance of winning next time. It's a huge ask, but (sadly) I don't see any evidence so far of it.

"Weak" is the opposite of how I view Corbyn. It seems that "strength" of character is often conflated with a willingness to bully, shout, write glossy nationalistic (and yet often meaningless) speeches and screw over the genuinely weak and oppressed.

Really? I'd consider bullying and bluster to be weak too. Quiet, determined strength is the real strength, but you DO need strength and a 'line' to lead a party. Or, indeed, a country.

but it is his job to put forward at least some ideas he is leader of the opposition not a backbencher and he is not even doing that I am sure this will lead to MP's rebelling against him now isn't the time

Yes, this. Exactly this.

Backbencher, cabinet member, party leader are such very different jobs.

I've no doubt that Corbyn got into power because of entryism in the Labour Party. Momentum is supported by Corbyn but it allows membership from those outside of Party membership - unlike Progress which only allows those within LP to become members.

At the Lambeth Momentum meeting, main speaker John McDonnell, there were leaflets from the SP, formerly Militant.

twitter.com/wallaceme/status/672524910800031745/photo/1

Corbyn needs to be more adept at handling the media and able to make Labour MPs follow him and hold the Tories to account

^ this.

He also needs to 'win over' past and potentially new Labour voters. At the moment there seems to be a lot of echo chambers talking.

People keep saying thousands are joining Labour because of him.

According to Melanie Onn MP on c4 news last night 15,000 however have left in the last month alone.

I watch DC, for instance, in the House of Commons and I think hmm. Every word that comes out of his mouth feels utterly insincere to me.

Yes, me too.

Mr insincere yorkshire pudding and Mr sincere wet lettuce facing each other across the house. It's a hopeless spectacle.