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Original poster

To think that Hilary Benn should

215 replies

Sallyingforth · 03/12/2015 13:38

take over as Labour leader right now.
He has time to rebuild the party into a credible opposition before the next election. With Corbyn in charge the Tories will walk it.

OP posts:
robinofsherwood · 03/12/2015 15:50

I don't see how we can be a democracy if the only parties we are presented with are pre-packaged with electability in mind.

I don't agree with everything Corbyn says but he's a lot closer to the mark for me than new labour. In the last election I voted because of what I didn't want, rather than what I did. I am grateful for an alternative, for people who want to consider the options rather than rush in with action that we have no reason to believe will work. I'm grateful that if Corbyn stays as leader I'll be able to vote FOR something. If the majority don't want it, that's democracy. Don't give me a choice between Tory and Tory-lite because you've decided that's what I want.

And I know a lot of people who didn't vote because they felt disenfranchised. Those are the people who labour could appeal to if they stop trying to pull themselves apart. Given the low turn outs in recent elections that could make all the difference

BreakingDad77 · 03/12/2015 16:00

I can understand labour being split over bombing but was more shocked with lib dems supporting the bombing TBH

Topseyt · 03/12/2015 16:10

I don't find Corbyn remotely electable and could never even consider voting Labour again while he leads it.

Hell, he doesn't even look to me as though he really wants the job. His facial expressions (or lack of them sometimes) and his body language when sitting on the opposition front benches are not those of someone who relishes the role. Most of the time he looks as though he would rather be just about anywhere else. I end up feeling sorry for him over it, but I could never vote for him.

Benn eclipses Corbyn at public speaking whatever the subject at hand. It just doesn't seem to be Corbyn's forté as far as I can see.

The Oldham result later tonight will be very interesting.

wheelofapps · 03/12/2015 16:20

lardy couldn't agree more!

DoctorTwo · 03/12/2015 16:23

I would not vote for a Labour party that elected as leader somebody who voted to take the country to another war. I would definitely vote for Corbyn as I like him and his policies. I know plenty of people who say the same.

VulcanWoman · 03/12/2015 16:25

I've gone off Benn.

Cleansheetsandbedding · 03/12/2015 16:59

Benn eclipses Corbyn at public speaking whatever the subject at hand. It just doesn't seem to be Corbyn's forté as far as I can see

It's just showmanship though isn't it? I couldn't vote for a guy that sends people in to a war just for the sake of been 'seen' to act

StrawberryTeaLeaf · 03/12/2015 17:09

just for the sake of been 'seen' to act

Did you listen to the whole speech?

If so, how could you possibly ascribe that motivation?

hackmum · 03/12/2015 17:21

The important thing is that we have someone who's good at making speeches. Nothing else matters.

Topseyt · 03/12/2015 17:28

Of course other things matter apart from being able to make speeches.

I couldn't vote for a party with Corbyn at the helm even if he was the greatest public speaker in the world. I am not a fan of his policies or of how he has conducted himself since becoming leader, and he has yet to convince me that he is at all comfortable in the role anyway. He always looks so bloody miserable when in the Commons.

Cleansheetsandbedding · 03/12/2015 17:32

Yes I did strawberry I spent most of yesterday trying to listen to them all (and watching the MPs behind them yawn and look bored)

It was just a well written speech. Any good publicist should be able to throw one together. Tbh I more intrested in the many questions that were unanswered and the real accounts of people that had actually been in the area and had expert advice that was totally ignored too.

stopfuckingshoutingatme · 03/12/2015 17:38

oh for FUCKS SAKE

he did one speech, which whilst it was "rousing" failed to mention any practicalities around handling this issue

Its just such a shitty MESS

so no, I don't agree

Whilst I can see JC gets peoples backs up, he is far braver and dares to speak up on the unmentionable topics

Comingfoccacia · 03/12/2015 17:38

I agree he shouldn't be measured against his father, he's his own man etc. He sounds more like another Tony. He is actually my MP, I didn't vote for him as he voted for the Iraq war (a pattern is forming). I would sooner have Mr Corbyn but the media will never give him a break and Labour sadly won't win with him as leader. But is HB a better prospect? From my personal stand point, no.

SettlinginNicely · 03/12/2015 17:42

I don't accept that the media is out to get Corbyn. They can only react to what he chooses to do/not do and say/not say. Using the media to get his ideas out is a core responsibility of his role. Again and again we see news media asking him questions and him scurrying away. He doesn't seem to proactively talk to the news organisations, and I do think it is part if the job.

StrawberryTeaLeaf · 03/12/2015 17:43

It was just a well written speech. Any good publicist should be able to throw one together. Tbh I more intrested in the many questions that were unanswered and the real accounts of people that had actually been in the area and had expert advice that was totally ignored too

Publicist? You're not suggesting he didn't write it?

Which expert advice do you think he ignored? Specifically?

He must be one of the most experienced Shadow Foreign Secretarys in history. He spent years dedicated to his international development brief.

You might disagree with him, but accusing him of cynical 'appear-to-do-something-ism' is so, well, cynical.

EnaSharplesHairnet · 03/12/2015 17:45

It is not the media, it is JC himself. And his chosen allies.

Bubblesinthesummer · 03/12/2015 17:47

His father would be ashamed? Because of course children must be indentikit copies of their parents. His father might have taken an opposite view - but if it were my child - I would still be every bit as proud. Differences of opinion on one area of thinking is not akin to a fatal flaw.

His father was actually extremely proud of him son and said so in his memoirs.

Cleansheetsandbedding · 03/12/2015 17:52

I actually read an article this morning about Bens speech. The author actually said it was a defining moment in politics like the 'where was you when Kennedy was shot?'

No. I didn't think it was.

GreenPotato · 03/12/2015 17:53

It was just a well written speech. Any good publicist should be able to throw one together.

Then why don't they? We have one of the most mercilessly, barefacedly right-wing govts in decades and they're just crying out for someone to stand up and tear them to pieces and point exactly what hypocrites they are (I'm talking about on issues like tax credits and disability benefit, rather than Syria) That's what the opposition is for and yet since Corbyn got in he's just got embroiled in a load of within-Labour disagreements and barely hammered Cameron at all, or pulled him up on his obvious bullshit.

Obviously on this particular issue Hilary Benn supported Cameron so not a good example, but someone who can make cogent points like that and come across as having a political passion and drive should be leading Labour.

If any good publicist can arrange that then why are Labour so rubbish at verbally challenging what the tories are doing? It drives me mad. I'm not a politician yet I often feel like I could give Cameron a better roasting than that lot.

manana21 · 03/12/2015 18:04

Here here greenpotato I feel similarly Labour don't have any front bench talent to really go after tax credit and disability cuts either, Cameron does (much as I dislike his politics) have the ability to make good speaches 'medieval monsters' is a memorable phrase for example

Behooven · 03/12/2015 18:07

I'd prefer Alan Johnstone.

Those referring to Benn's late father being ashamed of him (on here and SNP MPs) should be ashamed of themselves, it's a vile thing to say.

Cleansheetsandbedding · 03/12/2015 18:13

But has Ben stood up against benifits, council tax ? (Genuinely don't know )

I think with a lot of MPs it's a case of 'I'm all right Jack'

On this specific issue - any MP Agreeing to send more bombers to an area where it's already being annihilated by other states, at a cost of millions in austerity, at a cost of civilian lives, that ignored information that other counties are 'helping' IS , I feel have got an agenda.

GreatSoprendo · 03/12/2015 18:23

Yeah, so the man can deliver a speech well. Wasn't that effective though really. Only 66 voted for his point of view out of 231 Labour MPs.
Benn should become leader based on that? Er, no.

Maudofallhopefulness · 03/12/2015 18:23

Yes Cleansheets, I agree about the agenda issue.

Benn is a great orator. I think he's a political talent but I disagree with him over Syria. I like what Salmond has been saying on this issue although I've never voted SNP.

I like Corbyn. I disagree that he's unelectable and I find his principled non spin style refreshing. I just wish the twatty Blairey types in his party would give him a chance and get behind him rather than ranting that he's not electable because he's not slick. Clearly he is electable because he was elected.

SettlinginNicely · 03/12/2015 18:29

But how can they get behind him? Serious question. He isn't leading. It's hard to follow someone quietly doing their own thing.