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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that Hilary Benn should

215 replies

Sallyingforth · 03/12/2015 13:38

take over as Labour leader right now.
He has time to rebuild the party into a credible opposition before the next election. With Corbyn in charge the Tories will walk it.

OP posts:
Dipankrispaneven · 03/12/2015 14:21

On one speech? He wasn't interested enough even to stand for election as leader.

lardyscouse · 03/12/2015 14:21

[There was nothing in her OP to suggest she didn't vote]

sigh... which is why I asked the question.

itsmine · 03/12/2015 14:21

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

iPaid · 03/12/2015 14:23

Glad OP stuck around for the discussion Grin

Original poster
Sallyingforth · 03/12/2015 14:23

Fascinating responses! Thank you.

lardyscouse In answer to your questions I spend quite a lot of time studying politics.
I'm not a member or committed supporter of any one party, and I vote at national and local elections as I see things at the time.

But whichever party is in government I think a strong opposition is essential to a healthy democracy. It's my considered opinion that the Labour party is not an effective opposition at the moment, and that Benn, who I have been watching for some time, could change that.

Your own opinion of course is equally valid and I would not seek to criticise you for that.

OP posts:
wheelofapps · 03/12/2015 14:24

I liked the beginning of his speech very much and I think DC looked genuinely embarrassed re the 'terrorist sympathiser' remarks.

I liked it less as it went on and thought a lot of the applause was for a high profile Labour person joining in with the Tory POV.

MrsFrisbyMouse · 03/12/2015 14:25

His father would be ashamed? Because of course children must be indentikit copies of their parents. His father might have taken an opposite view - but if it were my child - I would still be every bit as proud. Differences of opinion on one area of thinking is not akin to a fatal flaw.

That is just as bad as Cameron and his terrorist sympathisers.

People can and should be encouraged to hold differing opinions and views on the world. Being able to debate and discuss those differing opinions and views are the bedrock of Western Democracy. We should always be encouraging alternative opinions to be heard - otherwise we become slaves to strict belief systems, unable to think for ourselves or change or minds when swayed by sensible arguments.

Spidertracker · 03/12/2015 14:26

I thought he made a good speech. However,The result of last night's vote was inevitable, it was rubber stamping an already made decision.

I don't know enough about Hillary Benn to know whether he would make a good PM, however I would rather have MPs who change their minds based on evidence than ones who stick to their principles whatever the circumstances.

lardyscouse · 03/12/2015 14:26

Oooo, ta for replying. I just wasn't sure if I needed to explain the procedures for leadership election. There are quite a few people who are unaware of how it works.

StrawberryTeaLeaf · 03/12/2015 14:27

I think Tony Benn would have been more likely to take a Voltairean view than most people TBH.

lardyscouse · 03/12/2015 14:28

Wheelofapps. I thought the applause was horrible, no matter which way a speech was angled, applause had no place in what was, in essence, a war room.

Hoppinggreen · 03/12/2015 14:29

I would much rather they keep Corbyn - greatly reduces the chance of them ever getting elected!!!

SushiAndTheBanshees · 03/12/2015 14:29

I thought the speech was empty. It was Blair 2.0. No positive reasons for bombing put forward, just not good enough reasons for not bombing. Which you would only advocate if it's someone else's children who are going to be the collateral damage. Wolf in sheep's clothing.

Agree, his father would be turning in his grave. I don't necessarily agree with everything Corbyn stands for, but if you are to use the word "principled" for either him or Benn, it would be Corbyn. Benn's speech was about politics, not about the right thing to do. Nobody in Weestminster seems to have the imagination or wherewithal to push through a moral position, they're all pussies.

Cleansheetsandbedding · 03/12/2015 14:32

Actually I heard better speeches against bombing Syria from people that had actually been there.

How the fuck is bombing going to work? This was already pre planned. Yesterday was smoke screen.

CallingAllEmergencyKittens · 03/12/2015 14:32

I actually think he is very much a chip off the old block.

They both remind me of the phrase "Perfect is the enemy of good" i.e. they tend use appeal to ideals to defeat something real that would be better than the status quo, but not perfect.

I would hesitate to go as far as mentioning the terms fifth columnist and stalking horse, but both phrases have crossed my mind in relation to the Benns.

Sunnyshores · 03/12/2015 14:33

Labour is the party in opposition and thats exactly what their role is - to oppose the government, or at the very least to question and debate - for our knowledge and benefit.

Corbyn is a very clever man and whilst perhaps not a great leader he is known in his local party for getting 'the little people' (thats us, the largely ignored electorate) involved.

Without people like Corbyn, without an opposition, we'd just have Dave and what Dave wants and that wouldnt be a democracy would it.

capercaillie · 03/12/2015 14:34

It was an excellent speech - I don't know whether that's enough to be a good Labour leader. I think he is principled and decent though. I was on a UK delegation with him to the UN around 10 years ago when he was Secretary of State for International Development and was impressed with how he approached the issues and came across - far better than the other 2 labour MPs on the delegation. He did a brilliant speech there as well. Given his experience in DFID, I'd reckon he has experience and knowledge of the Middle East situation and don't think he was in this to score political points.

GreenPotato · 03/12/2015 14:34

I said this to DP last night. I actually don't agree with Benn or with bombing. But what we need now is a clever opposition leader who can do rhetoric. Cameron is a disgrace and a sitting duck to be torn down with the right choice of words and by getting people to see what he's doing to them. But Corbyn isn't doing it! I'm so disappointed about that.

I don't think rhetoric is empty, it's a central political skill and the tories use it a lot to deceive us. Someone in opposition needs to be good at it.

APlaceOnTheCouch · 03/12/2015 14:34

This thread has unintentionally made me laugh. Firstly because from the title (and my own bias) I had expected it to be critical of HB but it was suggesting he become leader. Secondly because someone has said a good opposition leader is someone who makes a speech explaining why he is voting the same way as the Government.

It's a pity we are so far away from an election actually. I'd be interested to see how the electorate responded to Labour MPs voting with the Government. (I am genuinely interested in this. I can't tell if, for example, Labour majority constituencies are more likely to be pro or anti the bombing.)

OfaFrenchmind2 · 03/12/2015 14:35

Corbyn is a weak populist only propped up by his cronies. Tbh, almost anybody in the senior positions of the Labour would be more inspiring.

wasonthelist · 03/12/2015 14:35

I thought the SNP MPs got told off for clapping when they first arrived? Why was it ok last night?

DrDreReturns · 03/12/2015 14:36

exactly MrsFrisbyMouse - my father and grandfather had completely different political opinions, pretty much opposite ends of the spectrum. They still respected and loved each other.

howtorebuild · 03/12/2015 14:37

I wouldn't be voting him in.

I have been impressed with Burnham's behaviour since the leader election and would vote him as leader next time, if he tries again.

DrDreReturns · 03/12/2015 14:37

Yes I was wondering that too wasonthelist

Hihohoho1 · 03/12/2015 14:38

Funny to still see the patronising sneery cements from the labour posters.

That's why I left the Labour Party years ago.

I was I pressed by Hillary Ben, he came across well and is obviously a man if principal.

To those saying his father would be ashamed! Really? Do you expect your children to think like you and have no opinions of their own?

How suffocating and awful.