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AIBU?

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Original poster

In tears

487 replies

G1veMeStrength · 02/12/2015 22:40

Fucking parliament. You utter bastards. You're going to kill people and it won't stop anything.

OP posts:
Elendon · 03/12/2015 15:37

Troels, surprisingly, you've not really been empathetic.

I understood the SWP's "sectarianism kills workers" posters, but never understood their raison d'etre as to how to achieve it, besides I was too young then. I did understand "No Blacks, No Irish, No Dogs", when I went to London to work and live. But that was before my time, thankfully. Though I did experience racism when going for a flat. "oh your Irish?" was always the first line even though I had a shed load of money in the bank to give a deposit.

Gimmer? What's that?

Stratter5 · 03/12/2015 15:53

If they were bound to follow the wishes of the electorate directly we'd still have capital punishment.

What an utterly ridiculous statement.

kesstrel · 03/12/2015 15:53

Badders, it wasn't the department of defense, it was one of Bush's advisors, and even he was referring only to specific elements of the Geneva Convention.

Badders123 · 03/12/2015 15:53

Oh, well that's alright then! Hmm

ElfontheShelfIsWATCHINGYOUTOO · 03/12/2015 15:56

and they have just spent 20 minute arguing about whether to use Isis or daesh!

why doesnt everyone write to the BBC and ask them why they insist on calling them isis.

StrawberryTeaLeaf · 03/12/2015 16:01

What an utterly ridiculous statement.

Why? It's quite true. Public opinion has always favoured capital punishment.

Public opinion has favoured or opposed many things that over the years.

StrawberryTeaLeaf · 03/12/2015 16:02

many awkward things...

kesstrel · 03/12/2015 16:05

Badders, you said that your claim about the US department of defense "told you all you needed to know". I thought you might like to reconsider what you "know" since your source of information was factually incorrect.

To imply that I might think that such a position is "all right then" is a particularly unpleasant slur, and a cheap (although unfortunately common) way of deflecting attention from your error.

LurkingOne · 03/12/2015 16:07

You live in Devon, this we have confirmed. Every single MP in Devon is conservative, every Devon seat except Plymouth was won by a landslide by anyone's definition yet you havent met anyone who admits to voting conservative.

You haven't met anyone who openly supports the airstrikes either, and you think this is reflective of grass roots opinion.....

You don't see a weakness in your argument?

Badders123 · 03/12/2015 16:08

Well...its a while ago and my memory isn't what it was....:)
I remember the comment (but obv not who said it!) because at the time it seemed such a dreadful thing to say...the Geneva convention being formed to protect people from torture and abuse...described as "quaint"...it made my blood run cold tbh.

Badders123 · 03/12/2015 16:09

...and using that language to address any part of the Geneva convention makes me feel a bit sick.

anotherdayanothersquabble · 03/12/2015 16:10

OP: Thank you for posting this thread. War is sad, anyone who thinks otherwise has lost a little of what makes us human. Whenever someone dies, it is sad, regardless of how awful they are. If we loose the ability to value all human life, we no longer deserve to be in a position to make these type of decisions.

We can never know for sure, if killing one person will save many more and making those decisions is a huge responsibility. I hope the leaders go home and cry to have been put in a position where they have to value some lives over others and I hope they have the wisdom to listen to all the arguments before deciding.

We are not completely safe as we go about our daily lives and ISIS are absolutely a risk to us but they are not the biggest risk to life in the UK.

Someone on another thread quoted Goebels as having said all you needed to do to get the public on your side was to tell them they were in danger. (Paraphrased)

Politicians have at no time in history, been completely trust worthy. We as, the electorate have to analyse their motives and question their decisions. Politicians are influenced by lobbyists, opinion leaders, people with agendas (the arms industry, the oil industry, racists, imperialists) and we as the general public need to insure that they are also influenced by our opinions. This duty is almost as important as voting.

Thank you again for giving voice the unpopular opinion that war is not something to celebrate.

Badders123 · 03/12/2015 16:11

Today is a sad day.
I fear for the future.
We are now allies with Russia and Saudi Arabia.
"My enemy's enemy is my friend" indeed :(

Hatethis22 · 03/12/2015 16:15

It's fact. This is the first year that public support for the death penalty has dropped below 50%.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-32061822

ElfontheShelfIsWATCHINGYOUTOO · 03/12/2015 16:15

that murdering people doesn't make you a warrior, and that you will forever be just that little shit with BO who is making nothing of himself except an attempt to be cowardly murdering big shit

Nope. This gives believers an opportunity to do all you say, but for a far bigger higher more worth goal. To do as God has wished, as Allah and the prophet has wished.

LurkingOne · 03/12/2015 16:17

Badders, it was the attorney general alberto Gonzales who used the word quaint and (according to him in a statement once he was out of office so pinch of salt and all that) it was in the context of the convention requiring signatories to provide "athletic uniforms and scientific instruments" to prisoners.

Thanks for your posts, I don't agree with you overall, but you have raised things that have made me read more and think more.

Badders123 · 03/12/2015 16:18

Lurking.....ditto.

Want2bSupermum · 03/12/2015 16:18

badders My brother is in the British Army and when he has talked about the issues the one thing that has stood in my mind was him saying that it's frustrating when you are following the rules and the other side don't. The enemy are not following any of the Geneva convention and that is the first issue the Western and Russian armies have when using military force. My brother has said it's shocking that many of these terrorists are from the UK, France, Germany and Spain. He also says many are heroin addicts.

I have zero reason to not believe him. I also think the Geneva convention is quaint when you consider what the armed forces are fighting against.

I fear the history books will mark this as the official start of WW3. We are bloody idiots for walking right into their hands. These people are operating in cells and we need to take them out cell by cell. It's a cancer. You don't bomb a cancer. To get rid of a cancer you first cut out the tumor and then blast the remaining area to eradicate it.

BMW6 · 03/12/2015 16:18

I'd fear the future massively more if we did nothing to destroy Da'esh, frankly.

Youandmemillerscow · 03/12/2015 16:23

"I fear the history books will mark this as the official start of WW3. We are bloody idiots for walking right into their hands. These people are operating in cells and we need to take them out cell by cell. It's a cancer. You don't bomb a cancer. To get rid of a cancer you first cut out the tumor and then blast the remaining area to eradicate it."

^Yes, this.

anotherdayanothersquabble · 03/12/2015 16:23

I fear for the future when we have not found a better way to attack this problem.

This strategy has failed, time and again, leaving countries destroyed and destabilised and we are less safe from the threat of extremists than we were in the 1980's.

To carry on with the same actions expecting a different outcome is insanity!!

Badders123 · 03/12/2015 16:24

I think what I find so depressing is that we just don't learn from history...even quite recent history...
The Russians in Afghanistan in the 70s.
Us in 91 and 01 in Iraq.
Going after the taliban in Afghanistan.
All it has done is destabilise an already unstable region.
(We were also in Afghanistan when Victoria was on the throne! Anyone read the flashman books!? We didn't win then either)
Is Assad goes then IS will take over in Syria. Unless they can get just a few of the current cabinet to leave so that the rebels will work with the remainder. Likely? I doubt it.
More and more refugees that no one wants (Texas is taking the us govt to court to ban any Syrian refugees settling in their state. Macedonia is putting up a wall to keep them out)
It's all going to hell.

Badders123 · 03/12/2015 16:27

Want2b...I think your brother is right. A lot of these young people are drugged up to the eyes when they blow themselves up (and probably for quite a while beforehand too)
Anyone seen the film Cleanskin? Not brilliant, but it really made me think and raised some interesting issues.
These bombers were once not radicalised. They were normal kids. How did it happen? Why were they so easy to turn? Who is doing this?

Dreamgirls234 · 03/12/2015 16:34

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ElfontheShelfIsWATCHINGYOUTOO · 03/12/2015 16:34

another the country really couldnt be more destabilized than it is now