Nativity and child protection issue

[DrMum83]

AIBU?

An acquaintance on Facebook (girl I went to primary school with) has posted a video of her child in the school nativity play. Her mother (the GM) has then shared it on her Facebook. The acquaintance commented that 'I know some people are against videos of children but it's largely focused on DS and its a sad world we live in if I can't do that'.

One of her friends commented that there are child protection issues surrounding this and that at her daughter's school, they are specifically requested to not video the play or post on social media photos of other kids. My acquaintance retorted with 'the headmaster announced at the beginning of the play that video taking is allowed as long as no parents present object'

This rang alarm bells for me.

A) as part of my role at work, I am involved with safeguarding children. Children can be found on fb and hunted down by parents when in care and this can be disastrous.
B) 'no parents present object' what about the parents not present? And what about those sharing the video forward (as in this case)?

I have managed to find the name of school and have typed a letter to headmaster. He may think I'm an interfering busybody but would I be unreasonable to send it?!

Thoughts?

Our school allows filming but not to be posted on social media.

This is the rule at our school.

They also allow you to go to the front and take photos at the end, if you must buy something on social media.

It's works fine. All the kids are included, parents don't have to worry about their children appearing on the Internet.

It's not difficult to stick to.

I work in a primary school and a child in my class is on a child protection register. We as a school, are very diligent with regards to keeping this child out of class photos etc that could find its way out to the public.
The parents/carers are instructed to only post photos/videos of their own children on social media - as a safeguarding issue for ALL pupils. Some irresponsible adults still flout this though. It's madness.
The child protection pupil now has to always have a school play part that involves wearing a mask or disguise of some kind so that they are included.
It's not just about at risk children though, I'd be fuming if someone posted a pic or video of my child without my permission. I put in security settings on FB so that I choose who sees my child!

I think it must be a case of 'there aren't any of those children at my school'
'There aren't any of those adults on my facebook'

To those ignorant selfish posters saying 'well these children need to be excluded from certain activities'

They've already been through hell! You want them ostracised and marked out to bullies (children and adults) as vulnerable?!

I don't share photos or video of other peoples children without their express permission and only share missing people posts that have come directly from the police or where it's been reported in mainstream news.

Not all children at risk are official. Some women escaping dv are too scared to even report to the authorities, I even know of one case where the mother didn't go through official channels because her ex was a criminal lawyer, lots of friends in police and she didn't think she'd be believed/taken seriously. Remember abusers don't just abuse physically they mess with their victims heads too.

I do think it would be a good idea if it was explained (by schools, special ads?) that the reasons aren't just protection from unknown paedophiles, which is a factor albeit less than the risk from people who know the child, but because of dv, children removed into foster care because of abuse etc

Actually bloody sm should do an ad campaign (they've got more funds than govt) that you shouldn't share without permission of the child's legal guardian.

I think unless you are or have had experience of stalkers, abusive, child protection issues, some people just don't realise how common it sadly is, and also the possible affects of posting it online certainly without restrictions.
I've posted videos of my eldest's school play on Facebook, but I've limited it to grandparents only. I'd have emailed it if the file wasn't so big. Even that worries me, as Facebook likes to change settings randomly

I agree it is VERY important that these events are not shared on FB or similar. Our school used to give parents the chance to photograph their own child in costume before or after the performance. Videos were allowed as long as people didn't post them on social media - but I am guessing that some people did regardless.

I have to check the policy at our new school...if it is something similar then ds won't be able to participate.

3point yes - it does have to be absolutely certain that restricting photos reduces the risks to children, because the alternative is that restricting the photos is INCREASING the risk to children.

I don't give a crap about the ability of parents to film their kids, that doesn't figure.

The question is does restricting photos increase or decrease the risk to children given that some idiots are going to take pictures or film and post it anyway.

I know that recognition software is improving all the time but right here and now is this policy actually helping or hindering at risk children?

video taking is allowed as long as no parents present object

I have only skimmed the thread, so apologies if this has already been covered in detail.

I object to teachers making announcements like this in public before performances, because it puts parents who do object in a difficult position. They then need to stand up and object in front of all the other parents and often the children too.

Schools should have clear policies to protect the children in their care, and if some children do not have permission to be on social media the school needs to implement safe practice.

My children are adopted, with birth family not knowing their location. I would be very cross if some idiot posted them all over facebook.

What Euphemia said. I'd ban photography/videos at these events because of CP issues obviously, but also because of the inconsiderate parents standing up to take photos or waving bloody great ipads around blocking everyone else's view.

OP, send the letter. Anyone who says otherwise Is spectacularly ignorant and ill-informed. As long as they get pictures of their precious darlings, it doesn't matter who else they may be putting at risk. Selfish doesn't begin to cover it.

People have a right not to have their images plastered all over Facebook even if there aren't child protection issues.

To the OP, I would definitely say something to the HT regardless of whether you have any connection with the school.

Actually, we have a performance today, and while there was a box to tick regarding local news taking photographs of your child, there was nothing about parents doing the same.

I'm going to have to speak to them and make sure. Shit.

Baconymum thats a brilliant idea there should be some sort of campaign about sharing.

We're allowed to take photos and videos but asked not to share on social media anything that shows other children. This seems like a sensible approach. I wonder if the school does actually ask parents the same, but your acquaintance is choosing to ignore it, op?

Definitely contact the Head, but I doubt he will be able to prevent those really determined FaceBookers. (Incidentally, does anyone other than close family ever look at these things?)

I belong to a pensioners' activity group which contains two women in their late sixties who are obsessed with their mobile phones; they delight in filming everything and posting unflattering pictures of group members on FaceBook. No safeguarding issues, just a dislike of looking silly. No amount of polite, or otherwise, requests to stop this has any effect; increasingly isolated, they now refer to other members as snobs, who cannot take a joke. So it hits all ages.

When people violate the 'no pics on social media' rules, the next step is a complete ban on pics and videos. If people cannot be sensible, then more draconian measures have to be implemented. It won't be long before facial recognition software is widely available, and any one who wants to search for a particular picture of their child in care will just be able to upload a picture of them into Google, and the results will be back in an instant.

Well, that was as clear as mud. I approached the teacher in charge of the event and asked her if parents would be allowed to take footage, to which I got a 'Yes, that will be fine, they will be able to'. I think it came across like I was hoping to film him.

So then I said 'ahhh....we might have a problem then...' and she was like 'Oh. What I meant to say was, that parents will be asked to turn off their phones and there will be an announcement.'

So I said 'so they won't be able to post it on social media then? And he won't be filmed?' and she just sort of shook her head like she didn't really have a clue.

She then volunteered that a local newspaper had been invited along, but that she was sure she could leave ds out of it if I liked? And I pointed out that I had already signed the form to ask that he wasn't involved in any filming.

Not very reassuring at all. FFS

(Incidentally, does anyone other than close family ever look at these things?)

Sorry, but yes, they do. That's kind of the point.

I have a digital child protection certification for work. As part of CPD, we attend meetings on this type of thing. The guidance is now to give children at risk from being filmed and put on social media a "behind the scenes" job, because nobody listens to the warnings and covertly film and upload anyway. Once it's up, it could be anywhere.

I think this is really sad and unfair but the statistics speak for themselves. They found hundreds of "do not record" nativities and school plays on social media.

I guess you only need one parent to think that it doesn't matter or one video won't hurt.

Oh bugger. Thank you for the insight. It looks like he just won't be able to be part of these things in future then.

I'm thinking of taking him out of today's performance just in case. It's such a risk.

My friend adopted 3 lovely siblings from a horrible home life several years ago. They suspect the parent actively looks for the children (and their christian names are rather unique and can't be changed).
All it takes is one nativity video and a comment underneath to the effect of 'look how X has grown!' and they have a problem.

I used to grumble and think it was a bit of an overreaction, now, not so much.

I'm so glad I've sent the email to the HT now going by some of these posts (esp DeirdreDoo-) If the bloody teachers aren't clear on the rules and risks, how can they enforce this and inform parents?!
DeirdreDoo is it worth speaking to your DS's HT?
To all those saying children at risk should be excluded - the irony is there's now children not at risk being pulled out of plays as well due to the inconsiderate face bookers. No child should be excluded and ostracized because dickhead parents want to show their darlings off.

Our Head always states at the beginning that please could we not film or take photos during the performance, as not only do many parents not want their kids pictures on FB, it is distracting for the children.

What she then does is she allows five minutes at the end for children to pose on the stage and their parents come down and take photos of their own child if they wish. This then doesn't distract the kids, parents aren't putting photos of anyone else's child on FB, and the photos you get are much better as not taken from a high up balcony and blurred.

Fully agree with you Drmum. Besides under Ofsted rules schools cant exclude or single out a child in any case.
I also think an advertising campaign would be a fantastic idea.

Dr and Deirdre, I hope it didn't come across like I support that. It was just the guidance that I was given - I don't work in a school or have anything to do with putting on productions, but I do work with CEOPs, so they give us all the latest changes.

I absolutely don't think that any child should be excluded. There doesn't seem to be a viable alternative being considered at a higher level yet, though - we talked through why taking phones off people had failed, big "No filming" signs, personally talking to people on the way in to let them know that a child involved could not be filmed or have footage circulated... and then a few minutes on Facebook finds the films anyway.

It's a sad world that parents can't just enjoy their child's nativity and be thankful that they don't need to protect their child to such an extent, but it genuinely seems that we can't do this. People will covertly film, or promise not to upload and do it anyway...

I do think schools and protection agencies should do more, but whilst they are working out what that is, it seems the only real option to keep children safe is to let parents know that schools will do their best (maybe) but cannot guarantee that it won't end up on social media, so offer a position that won't be filmed instead. That's no compromise for a child that wants to be an angel rather than a director, though.

Maybe it's sadly got to the stage where parents must be searched and phones/cameras etc are left at the door. I understand your point Anchor.