to wonder why I always end up being bullied?

[bulliedAndEmbarrassed]

Is it just that I notice it happening, and then dwell on it? Do i care too much what some people think? or is it that I am just fundamentally crap in a variety of ways? What can I do to stop it, other than just jumping off a cliff?

Some people seem to always have problems with particular figures. Some people are always "targeted by authority". I seem to have been being picked on by the cool kids all my life. I know that I'm probably too likely to notice and dwell on the quiet comments, the shared smiles, the dismissive put-downs, the eyerolls.

But i should have grown up and got over it by now. I'm nearly 40, and my wellbeing no longer depends on watching my mother and sister gang up on me. It's no longer 5th form latin with the bitchy girls exchanging smiles every time I got something wrong.

It seems that everywhere I can be bullied by someone who likes to bully, they will see something in me, very quickly, and let rip. It probably doesn't help that I've worked in academia, where bullying, appalling behaviour with no consequences, and strange power dynamics are rife. Everywhere I've ever worked I have been deliberately torn to shreds, either by supervisors who've decided I was a waste of space and used every opportunity to subtly or not so subtly tell me I'm an idiot; people competing for a supervisor's attention, who loudly dwell on everything I've ever done wrong, and dissect anything I've ever done right until it looks like a fault; or (more often) by middle-aged women who see something in me and instantly decide to destroy me with very petty schoolyard bullying.

At the moment I'm doing freelance work so i don't have to deal with colleagues because I got to the point of suicide I was being bullied so much at work. The freelance work is fine. But the bullying is now coming from a couple of men in the choir i sing in, who for some reason think I'm useless, and take every opportunity to point out to others that i'm no good. It also still comes from family - my mother and sister don't worry me any more because i see them as pitifully dysfunctinonal - but for example my parents in law think I'm useless, and make sure i know it.

It would be possible to conclude that I'm just useless at everything and other people are giving the reality checks that i need. But on paper I'm not that "useless" - I had a high-flying academic career with a good publication record and lots of external funding. Now I have a freelance career that is going well. I am not that bad at music, or that un-self-aware, that I would have misplaced confidence in my ability to sing in the choir I'm in (and it gets reauditioned every year and i've never not passed an audition). I'm not thick, I read stuff, I observe, I don't witter on with crap or destroy other people, I try to be friendly, helpful and kind. But i'm always on the outside, and am so often being put there deliberately by the "in crowd".

I'm like the archetypal weedy kid in glasses who gets sand kicked in his face - but my life seems not to have the children's story happy ending where the kid ends up coming out on top.

Sorry, pressed send too soon.

The bolded sentence is where I would like to get to.

Oops sorry Totmentil! Thank you for the explaining boundaries.

I was going to post on boundaries but wasn't sure how to phrase it. Now tormentil has broached the subject I will pile in

I have never been bullied even though I'm a perfect target in some ways. Overweight at school, bookish, not one of the popular kids. I think the reason is that I have very high boundaries. I am naturally quite self-contained and don't need or want lots of company. I have my friends and my family and that's plenty. So I'm not immediately very open to people. People have to get over a very high hurdle if I am to spend any of my limited social energy on them. This has its downsides, obviously, but the upside is that I am also not vulnerable to anyone else's crap. One whiff of anything even slightly off and I shut them off.

I've learned to hide some of this so people don't think I'm an arse - and I now have to do quite a bit of socialising for work. But I'm putting on a show. It's on my terms.

I have friends who are much more open and sociable than me. Great in some ways but one or two of them lack the radar that I have and they let poor quality people into their life. I can't afford to do that as I don't have the social energy for them but it also means that I don't have to manage their crap.

So yes. I don't allow rubbish in my space. I hope this doesn't sound like victim blaming. I think it's more about what Gabisolis was hinting at. There are crap people in the world. And if you allow yourself to need anything from them - company, being liked by them, even just not being disliked by them - you are open to their nastiness.

This is going to sound really naff - but you need to be your own most important person. You give yourself what you need in terms of positive reinforcement etc. then you won't be open to crap from crap people.

Great post ^^

Given me so much to think about, so thank you.

It's a lot easier to socialise when you expect nothing of it.

This is a really interesting statement - you see, I never expect anything of socialising apart from hopefully having a decent time at that particular moment. I never go with the expectation of making friends or anything that goes beyond that scenario. At a playgroup, I vaguely hope to see people I will be able to chat to next week - but that's all. If I go out and people I don't know are there, I don't expect to become part of their social circle, just to have a friendly conversation at that occasion. At work, I want people I can sit with and pass the time of day with at lunch, but anything apart from that is a bonus. As it turns out, some of my best, hopefully life-long, friends are from work - but when I start a new job I won't expect to find that again. If I do - great! If I don't, I only work with them.

I agree, that is my mindset as well, and paradoxically these "low" expectations have led to some great friendships.

I think going in open minded and not really expecting to instantly find best friends in any given situation is excellent advice, as is that about boundaries. I don't think that someone getting bullied is totally about the person's reaction to a bunch of perfectly normal people behaving normally - bullying people do target some individuals - but likewise some people, possibly ones oversensitized to rejection, do see it and react to it where it may not have been completely intended.

Choir man wasn't bantering, he doesn't know how. But I do somehow need to develop a boundary of not needing to be respected by him.

Great advice about not expecting to find instant best friends - that is me all over. I want to be liked and dh compares me to a puppy, I roll over and show strangers my fluffy underbelly! I show my vulnerability and so this can attract the wrong people who see my good characteristics - honesty and open-ness and exploit them.

I need to get to know people.

Now that's interesting - when I go into a new situation, I don't worry if anyone will like me, I wonder if there will be anyone I like!

I'm the same Brian. The way I see it, I know who I am. I know I have my faults but I'm generally a good person and I don't need anyone, least of all people I hardly know, to tell me whether I'm worth knowing or not. The important thing is whether I like other people.

Such a great attitude to have.

I had someone say something about me recently that was untrue (being vague as I am easily identifiable) and I was talking to my husband about it who asked me why I was worrying when I am a good person, I'm kind and funny and people would be lucky to have me as a friend. I guess deep down that I don't think I'm worth much even though on paper I know I have a lot of great traits. Dad did a number on me! I guess it takes a lot of work to overcome a childhood where one person who was meant to love you didn't.

I always want to prove myself, prove that I'm worth knowing, prove that I'm good enough. I love the idea of turning it around and wondering if there is anyone I like instead. I hate that it sometimes turns me into what I think of as weak. I am far from weak in the sense that I can and do cope with a lot of shit and carry on but when I'm in new social situations I turn to mush in the desperate attempt to want people to see me as a person worth knowing.

You know what? Fuck that. Im not going to do it anymore. I'm not going to give that power to people anymore.

This thread has been so helpful. Thank you OP for starting it and I hope you don't mind that it has derailed and I also hope that you have found it useful.

That's great U2. Another way to look at it is - why sit in front of someone and expect them to validate you? Why is that their job?

Good on you for the epiphany U2 and thanks to Cailindana, Brian, and all the others who have offered such good advice here.

I'm with U2 in that I'm trying to look at things differently after a lifetime of trying to find validation to prove those early opinions wrong.

I do think that there's one particular pattern of speech that might be significant - people always used to say to me/ my sister when we were children "I'm proud of/disappointed in you" "your teacher will be so proud of/ disappointed in you" "your grandmother will say you're beautiful in that dress" "your teacher will think you're ugly if you don't comb your hair" - everything was always about an authority figure's external validation, rather than whether something was objectively well done or worthwhile or something where the appropriate amount of effort had been put in.

Looking at my mother's social interactions now, she's still always going on about how so-and so [perceived social authority figure] said such and such that means that my mother is right and someone else is wrong. She only finds validity in social interactions where she perceives that someone to whom she feels subordinate has enlisted her against someone else, or where someone to whom she feels superior has agreed with her that a third party is wrong. It's actually really sad listening to her talk about going to lunch with all the other 70-year-olds at a school reunion "and [so-and-so] who was head prefect said to me that I was right and [someone else] was wrong. [Someone else] was always a bad girl at school and she still is, the teachers never liked her." She doesn't seem to have any other framework for how social interaction can work. I feel slightly that she still cares that someone was head prefect and they all left school 52 years ago. It's coloured her entire life, and mine.

I used to end up getting bullied a lot but since I stopped wanting approval from arseholes things have got a lot better. I also am more vocal now and not afraid to cause a scene and pull someone up on shitty behaviour.

My advice would be to distance yourself as soon as you get the faintest whiff that someone isn't a very nice or decent person. I have no patience these days for people that bitch about others, people who display tantrummy, Madam-ish behaviour, and people that act in a selfish way. Basically the characteristics of anyone that has bullied me in the past! I am very choosy these days about who I will spend time with.