to wonder why I always end up being bullied?

[bulliedAndEmbarrassed]

Is it just that I notice it happening, and then dwell on it? Do i care too much what some people think? or is it that I am just fundamentally crap in a variety of ways? What can I do to stop it, other than just jumping off a cliff?

Some people seem to always have problems with particular figures. Some people are always "targeted by authority". I seem to have been being picked on by the cool kids all my life. I know that I'm probably too likely to notice and dwell on the quiet comments, the shared smiles, the dismissive put-downs, the eyerolls.

But i should have grown up and got over it by now. I'm nearly 40, and my wellbeing no longer depends on watching my mother and sister gang up on me. It's no longer 5th form latin with the bitchy girls exchanging smiles every time I got something wrong.

It seems that everywhere I can be bullied by someone who likes to bully, they will see something in me, very quickly, and let rip. It probably doesn't help that I've worked in academia, where bullying, appalling behaviour with no consequences, and strange power dynamics are rife. Everywhere I've ever worked I have been deliberately torn to shreds, either by supervisors who've decided I was a waste of space and used every opportunity to subtly or not so subtly tell me I'm an idiot; people competing for a supervisor's attention, who loudly dwell on everything I've ever done wrong, and dissect anything I've ever done right until it looks like a fault; or (more often) by middle-aged women who see something in me and instantly decide to destroy me with very petty schoolyard bullying.

At the moment I'm doing freelance work so i don't have to deal with colleagues because I got to the point of suicide I was being bullied so much at work. The freelance work is fine. But the bullying is now coming from a couple of men in the choir i sing in, who for some reason think I'm useless, and take every opportunity to point out to others that i'm no good. It also still comes from family - my mother and sister don't worry me any more because i see them as pitifully dysfunctinonal - but for example my parents in law think I'm useless, and make sure i know it.

It would be possible to conclude that I'm just useless at everything and other people are giving the reality checks that i need. But on paper I'm not that "useless" - I had a high-flying academic career with a good publication record and lots of external funding. Now I have a freelance career that is going well. I am not that bad at music, or that un-self-aware, that I would have misplaced confidence in my ability to sing in the choir I'm in (and it gets reauditioned every year and i've never not passed an audition). I'm not thick, I read stuff, I observe, I don't witter on with crap or destroy other people, I try to be friendly, helpful and kind. But i'm always on the outside, and am so often being put there deliberately by the "in crowd".

I'm like the archetypal weedy kid in glasses who gets sand kicked in his face - but my life seems not to have the children's story happy ending where the kid ends up coming out on top.

And you simply can't stop people belittling you or having a go at you. You can't control other people's behaviour at all.

Don't you think some people are targetted more than others to be belittled?

Or do you think everyone gets an equal share of it and some just deal with it better?

I think some get targetted more myself.

I also think some people notice more than others, unless it is particularly overt.

I think there is some truth in it being how you deal with it. I know people who always seem to have others making snarky comments I would never, ever get from people. I'm not particularly popular or anything, but if someone tries to have a little dig my default is to just not react at all. Like, act like they didn't even speak. I don't have a go back or get defensive, just store it mentally ("that person is not nice/trustworthy") and move on.

OP I think you need to try to be more resilient, brush 'negativity' off, look for the best in people - don't always assume the worst.

For example there is a chance that choir man meant his comment to be a bit of light hearted banter, which you have then taken to heart. Even if he was genuinely being rude, your best response would have been something along the lines of laughing it off and saying the feeling was mutual.

People who can make light of nastiness and laugh at themselves don't tend to get bullied.

OP all my life I have feared rejection. I was rejected by my dad and by a few other people who loved me. I am not alone in that but for some reason it became my biggest fear. It then lead to me feeling that I wasn't liked by people and could never make friends.

At the age of 34 I still find myself on the outside, never truly fitting in and I find that people spot my weakness and use it against me. I started a new job and surprise surprise I don't really fit in. I heard a comment today, running me down a little but this person is a strong character who makes me nervous and then I come across as quite weak.

Is this a self-fulfilling prophecy? I am starting to think it must be. And maybe it is for you.

The choir man is a prick You sound wonderful.

I don't think bullies come from a wonderful place though. It's a learnt strategy like any other behaviour.
I have found I end up with boyfriends that quite honestly like me being rude and aggressive. I really dislike being like that and have to do the breaking up. However I am perfectly lovely with more alpha males. But that isn't who I attract.

Yes I do think some people get targeted more, the people who react. If you don't react, you don't get targeted, at least that's been my experience. I agree that some people notice more than others toby but again that's not really relevant as it still comes down to how you react. Of course if you don't even notice you're not going to react at all but of two people who do notice, the one who will have it easier in the long run is the one who doesn't feed the whole situation by getting involved.

And yes sometimes it is a self-fulfilling prophecy. I ran a toddler group where one mum came to me crying because she felt everyone excluded her. She said it had happened all her life. A lot of mums had started at the same time, all nervous, all looking to make friends, and everyone else made a huge effort and eventually clicked. She stood there and glared at everybody. What were they supposed to do? Force her to talk? Keep talking to her until she responded? If you're in a new social situation you absolutely have to make a huge effort to get off to a good start with everyone. And that applies to absolutely everybody, even the people who seem to have friends flocking to them.

And I have very little truck with someone saying 'nobody talks to me.' Why should everyone else have to make the effort? Why don't you talk to them?

I go to groups at my local Childrens centre. I find the staff friendly and approachable, some mums come in small groups and tend to talk to each other, others come alone. I knew nobody when I first went and over 18 months or so have got to be at least on chatting terms with probably half the regulars. But it's just that, we don't meet outside groups. That's fine - I only want someone to make small talk with for fifteen minutes.

But I read posts on local Fb groups saying they don't go to this group and that group as everyone is cliquey, unfriendly, nobody talks to you...well, if you don't smile and say hello everyone assumes you're fine on your own really. People bob in and out. Most people don't go every week...you just have to start talking ("I'm so glad they do painting here, I hate getting the paints out at home") and someone will talk back! I don't think I'm hugely social or confident but nobody else will do it for you.

I went to one group where a new mum turned up. She was American which is very unusual round here and approached it in a totally businesslike way. By the end she was taking people's mobile numbers and arranging play dates! UnBritish but I was really in awe and thought I could learn a lot from such a direct approach. I bet she didn't feel friendless for long.

As I ran the group I was at I always made an effort to talk to everybody but there were some people who would just respond to what I asked and never say anything else. I always tried a few times but then I had to assume they just didn't want to talk (which is the case for some people) and leave them be. There's only so much effort a person can make before they feel they're harassing a person.

I been singled out by bullies at various stages in my life and I think this is because I'm a highly sensitive person with high empathy and bullies see me as an easy target. Currently, I'm being bullied by an absolute bitch who's daughter is in DDs class. She has made my school run a misery for the past 5 years and I think it's because she's a typical queen bee narc and she knows I can see straight through her so it's like she's trying to destroy me. I realise that sounds extreme but she has chipped away at my friendships and DDs friendships trying to isolate us for so long it's psychotic!!
Being sensitive, emphatic and observant of others behaviours, definitely makes you a target. By the way I have loads of fantastic friends so I don't struggle with relationships per se.
That choir man sounds hideous. Ignore him, you sound lovely xx

it's an old cliche but they'll probably be jealous if you are high flying doing well. If someone spoke to me like your choir man, I would think what an a. My singing might be a little bit off but would I say it to someone if they sang like a strangled cat?Would you? No. So there's your answer. Your standards don't match his Thank God!

Interestingly, 1 thing I found really helpful was to confide in people with someone have been awful. Most of the time, people don't argue with me and agree with me and say, 'Oh yes, I see what you mean. That person is this, this and this and I agree with you.' Perhaps you could confide in another choir member about this man. Chances are, they wouldn't exactly be singing his praises. I know it feels like a dirty secret if it's just you but it probably isn't. You will break the spell if you talk about it.

Regarding the standing up to people, I do actually think you need to do it, really. I have done this and it's been cathartic and then, after a few times, I found I don't have to do it anymore because I feel I've established myself as a strong person and it starts getting to the point that I am able to roll my eyes and get on with it.

I don't think you can pretend not to care andignore it if it's really not genuine.I think you have to start off by doing something then gradually you will have grown in confidence and realise they're not worth the bother.

So I think that is the key - opening up and standing up for yourself.Breaking the Spell

If you're in a new social situation you absolutely have to make a huge effort to get off to a good start with everyone.

And sometimes you do that and it still doesn't work.

I make a huge effort with everyone. I talk to everyone, show an interest in everyone and I am not at all shy when it comes to talking to people. I have found that people who I don't really care if they like me because I probably won't see them again love me, but people who I want to like me don't. So there is a fine line between making no effort and too much effort perhaps.

I think if someone experiences a behaviour over and over again there is a reason for it, it can't be a coincidence. I think it is probably something really subtle you are putting out some vibe or something. I have been trying to get into a friendship circle and it's not happening and it's not because I'm a bad person, I'm the opposite, but there is something I do, something I give out that always puts me on the outside.

My 12 year old son expects that everyone will love him and they do. He is very popular and people flock around him. On starting a new school he didn't worry about making friends because he knew he would make loads and on the first day he did.

I have found your posts really interesting Cailindana

gandalf

I have found that myself. Thinking everyone loves an arsehole and thinking it is my problem, then when I have opened up to someone it turns out that I'm not alone. That person has actually upset quite a few people.

I have been trying to get my other ds to stand up for himself at college. When another boy kept telling him he didn't want to work with him my son got really upset and it started to happen often. I told him to say to the boy next time that it was tough, he didn't want to work with him either but they just have to get on with it so stop moaning. Next time it happened he repeated what I told him to say and it shut the person up and he has been happy to work with him since.

I spent years at school being bullied and not saying boo to a ghost but I'm trying to teach my son who only started experiencing bullying at college that he has to find his voice and stand up for himself.

I think that most people have been in situations (particularly work related) where they just don't gel with the other people in the group and feel out of place. However, if it happens to someone in every situation and they constantly feel bullied and/or disliked then they need to look at their own behaviour. They are very probably doing something to make them unpopular and "confronting" people is only likely to make things worse.

I wonder if the vibe is insecurity?

I've described myself as being the social equivalent of a canary in a coalmine. You can hire me to draw out anyone who has bullying tendencies.

Having had more than my fair share of bullying and exclusion I've now changed tack completely and stopped trying to be either accepted or liked.

I've put boundaries in place that keep everyone at a distance. It has led to a period of extreme loneliness, but oddly enough, I'm beginning to feel that things are getting easier. It's a lot easier to socialise when you expect nothing of it.

I did some personal development work ten years ago. One of the pieces of wisdom was that if you have boundary issues, make your boundaries tighter and firmer than they need to be. At that point I had no idea of how bad my boundaries were so I thought that that advice wasn't for me. I now know they were almost non existent. The advice is right, I think.

tormentil

Can you explain a bit more about the boundary issues?

In what way were your boundaries bad?

I understand if you don't want to go into it further.

U2HasTheEdge

It's not all that clear in my head really - I'll give it a go.

As I have understood it, it's about what you allow to happen in 'your space'. If your boundaries are weak you don't tend to draw a line until you have become upset. You allow other people to behave badly around you and don't 'set the rules'. If your boundaries are strong, you just don't allow any abuse of your space or time. For instance, if it is important to you for someone to be on time, a person with strong boundaries won't compromise or make excuses for the other person. It'll be 'be on time or don't participate'. Re-establishing boundaries can be as simple as saying ' It's not OK for you to shout at me'. And walking away.

I think the start of weak boundaries is probably poor parenting - parents who didn't respect your boundaries.

For me, I had parents that labelled me negatively, lived with a man who hit me, and when single again found myself floundering in relationships where I felt used. Some things happened this year which were very hard - social exclusion - and I was finally able to see that I no longer wanted to know the people who had excluded me. That made it easier to step out of things. Its been really hard, I'm not giving an inch to anyone who hasn't 'earned it'. I've accepted loneliness (well, sort of - last week was bad, this week has been better).

Maybe someone else can explain boundaries better. I certainly think it is as good a way to tackle self esteem issue as building confidence. I find it more 'neutral'.

I could've written the op myself. This is who I am. I have been bullied throughout my life. I could give myself labels to explain it which I have done in the past because you need some way to understand it.

I was first bullied when I was four years old because I was the only one who hadn't lost a milk tooth. I was bullied again for having blue shoes the next year. Two years after that I was bullied for an entire school year for not letting another kid get away with copying my work. She went on to encourage others to sing songs about me and my weight (I was a chunky kid and I can still hear those songs in my head now). Throughout secondary school I was periodically bullied for various reasons, sometimes my weight, sometimes I couldn't explain why. It was at this age that I think the bullying really did take on more of a 'I'm being bullied for the sake of being bullied' tone. I had become that person by that point.

I have been bullied at 3 different places of employment (including my current one). Each time it has followed the same pattern. I have blamed myself for so much of this and spent so much time upset about it. I kept thinking I must be doing something wrong because I'm the common link in it all. I can't keep blaming others, maybe my work is bad etc (logically I know this is untrue and I am hardworking and reasonably intelligent). I have come to the conclusion that there are just some absolute arseholes in the world and they seize (sometimes unconsciously) on small weaknesses and fears in people and they exploit them for their own gains. It makes them feel good to be further up in the social hierarchy. I live in fear of being bullied and not being liked (because in my head not being liked leads to being bullied etc) and to make themselves superior these bastards bully me and don't like me. It's not so much about me but how I have been trained to respond to social cues. It is a painful cycle.

Sorry for the hijack op, this is just an emotive subject. Hope it helps to know you're not alone though.

U2hastheedge your post on boundaries is very interesting. I would say in the past my boundaries have been very weak. I've had a high tolerance to people treating me badly which then allows situations to deteriorate to horrible levels.
Standing up for oneself early on in a situation would prevent this.
OP I would also second talking to someone you trust within the choir about this. They will probably agree that person is a dickhead and it will make you feel less alone. The woman who has been giving me bother has pissed off and offended a lot of people besides me which assures me I'm not being paranoid about her X

I can't take credit for the boundary post, that was Tormentil

That does make sense, thank you. I have great boundaries in romantic relationships, my mum who had one abusive man after the other helped see to that.

With other people I'm not sure how good my boundaries are.

This part your post really spoke out to me.

Some things happened this year which were very hard - social exclusion - and I was finally able to see that I no longer wanted to know the people who had excluded me. That made it easier to step out of things.