to wonder why I always end up being bullied?

[bulliedAndEmbarrassed]

Is it just that I notice it happening, and then dwell on it? Do i care too much what some people think? or is it that I am just fundamentally crap in a variety of ways? What can I do to stop it, other than just jumping off a cliff?

Some people seem to always have problems with particular figures. Some people are always "targeted by authority". I seem to have been being picked on by the cool kids all my life. I know that I'm probably too likely to notice and dwell on the quiet comments, the shared smiles, the dismissive put-downs, the eyerolls.

But i should have grown up and got over it by now. I'm nearly 40, and my wellbeing no longer depends on watching my mother and sister gang up on me. It's no longer 5th form latin with the bitchy girls exchanging smiles every time I got something wrong.

It seems that everywhere I can be bullied by someone who likes to bully, they will see something in me, very quickly, and let rip. It probably doesn't help that I've worked in academia, where bullying, appalling behaviour with no consequences, and strange power dynamics are rife. Everywhere I've ever worked I have been deliberately torn to shreds, either by supervisors who've decided I was a waste of space and used every opportunity to subtly or not so subtly tell me I'm an idiot; people competing for a supervisor's attention, who loudly dwell on everything I've ever done wrong, and dissect anything I've ever done right until it looks like a fault; or (more often) by middle-aged women who see something in me and instantly decide to destroy me with very petty schoolyard bullying.

At the moment I'm doing freelance work so i don't have to deal with colleagues because I got to the point of suicide I was being bullied so much at work. The freelance work is fine. But the bullying is now coming from a couple of men in the choir i sing in, who for some reason think I'm useless, and take every opportunity to point out to others that i'm no good. It also still comes from family - my mother and sister don't worry me any more because i see them as pitifully dysfunctinonal - but for example my parents in law think I'm useless, and make sure i know it.

It would be possible to conclude that I'm just useless at everything and other people are giving the reality checks that i need. But on paper I'm not that "useless" - I had a high-flying academic career with a good publication record and lots of external funding. Now I have a freelance career that is going well. I am not that bad at music, or that un-self-aware, that I would have misplaced confidence in my ability to sing in the choir I'm in (and it gets reauditioned every year and i've never not passed an audition). I'm not thick, I read stuff, I observe, I don't witter on with crap or destroy other people, I try to be friendly, helpful and kind. But i'm always on the outside, and am so often being put there deliberately by the "in crowd".

I'm like the archetypal weedy kid in glasses who gets sand kicked in his face - but my life seems not to have the children's story happy ending where the kid ends up coming out on top.

Imagine the man from the choir to be naked while also imagining you in a favourite outfit. If you want to go further imagine him in a pink pinny with a colourful feather duster mincing round the room cleaning.
He sounds a right effeminate muppet. I could not be doing with someone like that.
I am a bit of a quiet person myself and I get taken for a ride many a time. I just assume that the people who treat me badly or not in the way that I would like them to treat me are poorly brought up and completely lacking in manners and not worth my oxygen!
You are much better than this and them

i wonder if joining an acting group and practicing faking so that you can fool the bullies wd work?

Not everyone sails through life. I don't get as much as you two, but I do get people being nasty to me; the bit I have never understood is what they get out of it?

I thought it was just me! When I first met my husband, he did not believe me when i said people saw me as weak and bullied me. Like you OP, I am clever, hard working, in a great job....I'm an empath and a good friend YET all my life I have been bullied. Not by men on the whole but by women. DH, having witnessed it, says I must be giving off a 'bully me' pheromone.

I am kind. I think a certain type of woman sees this as a chance to exploit...

PowerPantsRule- the "pheromone" may be the personal narrative, or the reactions mentioned in the UCLA research upthread.

Looking at my past analytically, trying to remove the victim narrative: most of the cases of bullying have been individuals who were envious of my freedom or the opportunities I'd had, or who were jealous of a position that I seemed to be "usurping". Relatively few - unfortunately all the recent ones - have been assholes who somehow get their jollies by ripping other people to shreds.

One boss who I felt very much bullied by was actually right. He pointed it out when I was being maladaptive, making poor choices and pissing others off. Eventually I grew up, and made sure he knew that I thought he'd been right. We are now friends. I have his rightness in mind when I get this treatment from others, which is helpful as a humility-check but also unhelpful because i'm always wondering if the assholes are right and i"m wrong.

It's possible to look at it all differently, but god it's just so bloody difficult some days.

Sorry, I'm going to be that person Bouquets - there's nothing wrong with being effeminate, and anyway - "Effeminate - traits in a human boy or man that are more often associated with feminine nature, behavior, mannerisms, style or gender roles rather than with masculine nature, behavior, mannerisms, style or roles" - I don't see how that's relevant to what the OP shared?

But the guy sounds like a huge twat. You pass the yearly audition, you have as much right to be there as anyone else. Perhaps you don't sing with as much confidence as some of the others? Have you ever sung to yourself in a mirror, and noticed your posture, etc? Perhaps you might be able to work on it.

But ultimately there are horrible people all over the place. In any group setting it's rare to find only lovely people. I agree with Bouquets on the visualizations - diminish him in your mind, whatever works - imagine him on the loo dealing with chronic constipation! Remember Harry Potter? Whenever you get the memory of him trying to intimidate you, chase it with one of him slipping on a banana skin and falling flat on his face, anything that will make you laugh, or make him look pathetic to you. Eventually it could help you deal with him.

Quit the choir and start martial arts instead. Shoulders back, head up, look people in the eye. Confidence and self esteem is what you need, not bullying.

Anyone gives you shit just look at them straight and say 'Sorry, what?'. Or, slowly 'What do you mean by that?'.

You are your own worst enemy OP, you need to learn to love yourself. I think you expect to be bullied, so it's a self-fulfilling prophecy.

OP, I wonder if some theatrical training might help you. It might teach you how to present yourself as confident, even dominant, in social situations.

Many professional theatre companies offer classes. Some are geared toward business people who want to present themselves effectively. They coach people in communication, negotiation, even things such as posture and gesture, which might seem minor but are strong clues to a personality.

A PP suspected you regard yourself as a person others always bullied. Actually, your username says it all. If that is your persona, you can change it, but you will need to be diligent. If you knew how to act confident, you could act that way all the time, and people would respond accordingly. But, at the moment, you don't know how.

Check out what your local theatre companies can offer, and if nothing is suitable, ask them to recommend an acting coach.

BTW, that guy in your choir is a foul-mouthed guttersnipe. Darn, wish I'd been there in steel-tipped stilettoes and overheard him! I love a good showdown!

Moriarty - completely agree about being that person - i didn't pick up the PP on it as was reflecting that maybe I need to be less sanctimonious. Also that the characterization would completely horrify the individual involved, who is quite humourless and macho.

groovergirl - where we are, the foul-mouthedness is vastly less noticeable than the sledging. The fact noone picked him up on it - though probably the only other person listening was the other guy who says similar things - in a context where sledging is generally regarded as extremely unacceptable, did make me wonder if they are right.

OK - need to be more confident, with firmer boundaries. Thanks everyone.

OK - need to be more confident, with firmer boundaries. Thanks everyone.

Yes exactly decide what is acceptable to you and make people stick to it or avoid/ ignore them.

I think the point about being accused of being 'oversensitive' is also important, that's your instinct telling you the situation is wrong. Listen to it and see it as a positive - never forget that the opposite of sensitive is insensitive, I know which I'd rather be

DM always helpfully told me I was 'oversensitive' as a teen btw. It took me years to learn how to see it and use it as a positive. You can't change being sensitive but you can change what you do with the information.

It's odd isn't it? I do think there is some people seem to get 'picked on' or don't fit in somehow wherever they go.

I work with teenagers. Sometimes a new child will start at my school saying they have been 'bullied' at their previous school. Within days they are being bullied in their new school. Exact same patterns of behaviour from bully and victim.

I'm quite a quiet person myself, which can make people think I'm a bit of a doormat occasionally. I totally get where you are coming from OP. By and large I've mostly learnt my own ways of dealing with it, but of course it still hurts sometimes. These things help me:

There certainly is an element of how how you interpret these events - throw words like 'bully' and 'victim' out of your internal dictionary, they won't help you and will keep you dwelling on your experiences.

Rather than thinking about where you have gone wrong, try to develop a feeling of pity for the person who is being a knob - what's happened to them to make them behave like that? The more you pity them the more you'll naturally behave like it bothers you less - you might even find yourself giving them a withering look without realising it!

Also remind yourself that sometimes in life, you'll meet someone you just don't like, or don't 'gel' with, for whatever reason. And vice versa. And that's ok! It's quite empowering to realise that actually, the important thing is that you don't like that person, not the other way around.

Finally, I actually find that standing up to said knobhead is, for me, more stress than it's worth sometimes. I find it easier to ignore and practise the above. Ignoring or acting nonchalant to someone who is trying to upset you is the ultimate insult - they are trying to make you feel bad - don't give them the satisfaction!

With regards to your choir - get out of there on the basis that it's not the one for you (and again, repeat: I don't like them, they don't like me, and that's ok!).

I hope all of my waffling is helpful OP, good luck with it all. Keep your chin up

I am like it too op. I have "bully me" written and n my forehead. However, I am getting better and learning not to care what others think.

Also learning to value those who are nice and worth bothering rather than thinking that bullying types somehow "matter" more.

Also I do imagine that both academia and "good ameteur music" (as one pp puts it) must be full of the most pretentious bullying twats, and so you are treading quite a hard road!

Just remembered an old trick I liked to use during my early 20s, when I sometimes got picked on by dickheads who decided I was too prim or whatever. This might work for you with your crappy choirmate. They'd make their mean remark and I would look them straight in the eye as if mildly dumbfounded, then stare at them more intently ...searchingly, quizzically ...then look them over as if seeking clues to their utter meanness and eventually return to their face, their eyes. I'd glance away, frown in thought, then look back as if still baffled, and move in on their personal space for a better look.

If I was successful in freaking them out they'd either back off or say something like "whaddaya looking at, fuckin' bitch?", which would make them appear even worse.

At this point you can wrinkle your nose as if at a bad smell, suppress a knowing smile, or say "I'm not quite sure..." and ask the people around you if they might know, thereby making the dickhead the focus of mass attention.

Go on, quiet girl, freak 'em out. It is more powerful, and more fun, than ignoring these people and letting them get away with shitful behaviour.

PS: I don't see why you should give up your choir, when you've been a member for years and are obviously very good at it. Stand your ground.

The fact that in your opinion so many people bully you including family suggests to me that you are extremely sensitive and perhaps over react to things. I work in academia and whilst I agree that there are some w**kers, there are plenty of normal, nice people as well. Most of us avoid the nasty ones as much as possible and don't get too upset about it.

Just talking from personal experience.

I think once it's happened to you a couple of times you start giving out the wrong vibes. If I encounter a new group of people I beocme very anxious and clam up, so don't speak much. Other people bond by sharing dislikes of people. If you've not made initial connections with people by chatting, you're a good target. I think I apppear aloof and disinterested and possibly as though I think I'm superior.

I think you can change your mindset to cope better in the ways Littlefrenchonion suggests.

Personally I think the comment from the choir man is probably his idea of banter and that he'd have preferred to work with someone he could have that sort of relationship with. Probably nothing to do with your singing ability. Just a guess though.

DH is so much better at it than me. He would very quickly retort to a snub with a jovial come back which seems to disarm them or at least let them know, he's not for messing with, who the hell do you think you are. I think it's quite a skill to master myself but it comes naturally to him. His mindset is also that if someone is horrible to him, they obviously have a problem themselves and it's nothing to do with him.

But don't underestimate just how many of these nobs there are out there, particularly in committees, groups. Everybody encounters them, you just have to find a way to deal with them that works for you.

I would bloody well stay on that choir. I think it's been good for my self esteem to just keep going and see it through. Once they realise they can't bully you out, they back down. And they look a bit pathetic after the event for trying to do so.

Sorry a bit long.

if it helps I think everyone would have thought that man in the choir was a total prick when he said that.

Some people are horrible, that's just a fact of life. They'll reveal themselves, and you have to avoid them.

But most people aren't horrible. They're just like you - wanting to be liked. If they say something and you look scared or worried or offended, they back off and start worrying what they've done wrong. If you persist in looking for them to be nasty to you, they'll get pissed off - it is very irritating to be around someone who is quick to take offence. Some of those people will feel terribly stressed out by you and start behaving in a nasty way in response - not good but understandable to an extent.

If you want to change things then you simply have to unclench. If you can't do that then you must do some serious hard work on being ok with yourself and learning that you don't need other people's approval. Some people in the world are mean, some people are thoughtless. It's just something you have to deal with if you socialise. You will, in time, meet the fantastic people, the people you'll love and get on with. But if you're always prickly and always defensive you'll drive everyone away, good and bad.

There's two reasons people bully; to make others laugh or to get a reaction. That means you have to be an easy target and not stick up for yourself or react badly like cry etc.

I think it's awful that this kind of thing still goes on between grown adults! I wish I could help, you NEED to start sticking up for yourself but I know it's not that easy sometimes. Don't think that you are the problem because you're not!

I really feel for you. You sound awesome and successful, there's probably a lot of jealousy behind this stuff.

My DD is being bullied at the moment and she is such a kind-hearted girl she just can't fathom why people would be nasty to her.

Having spent her whole life teaching her to be polite I am not almost having to reverse that by teaching her to answer back rude comments.

I've never been bullied but I've met plenty of bullies. I think when you're naturally a polite and sensitive person it's really hard to say something hurtful or sharp back to someone, but my view is IF they've already taken the gloves off then fire away.

We had a bully on a Committee I was on, making snide comments, bitching behind people's backs and undermining everything that everyone else did. I overheard her make a bitchy comment about me and went straight over and asked her what she meant by it. I am not confrontational by nature, but enough is enough!!

It's hard, but sometimes you have to steal yourself and answer back.

Choir man was gobsmackingly rude though, that's unbelivable. I'm afraid I would have instantly retaliated with a comment about his singing, tried to turn it into banter if at all possible rather than an outright attack: "no, you're right it's not going to be great if you're going to be in the sextet but I'm sure the rest of us will make up for your lack of tone"

Seriously, I never start stuff but I WILL finish it.

I disagree with the 'sticking up for yourself' thing unless it's in a work situation where someone is unfairly criticising your work in a way that could affect your career. In that case, IMO, the criticism should be asked for in writing in a non-confrontational way and every aspect of it should be addressed in detail. Other than that, I always entirely ignore personal comments - what do I care what some nobber thinks of me? Why even get involved in such a waste of energy?

"Why even get involved in such a waste of energy?"

Because it's not a waste of energy if it stops the behaviour, which it usually does.