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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

"Sharia taxi driver told me i was disgustingly dressed" says actress.

435 replies

HelenaDove · 24/11/2015 00:56

It apparently happened after an awards ceremony.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3331164/Sharia-taxi-driver-told-disgustingly-dressed-BBC-star-Frances-Barber-tells-accosted-Uber-employee-showbusiness-awards-ceremony.html

OP posts:
Booyaka · 24/11/2015 14:25

I think the abuse in Rotherham and the abuse in the Catholic Church had an awful lot in common. Someone mentioned up thread that abuse was about power. And I think in both of those cases the authorities at the time viewed the abusers as being untouchable because of their religious positions.

But I think that a big difference is that largely the Catholic Church has been forced to take responsibility for it and acknowledge that it is/was a Catholic problem which had it's roots in cultures and practices associated with the Catholic Church.

With the grooming cases, that's just not happened. There's still on the part of a lot of people a wish that the religious aspect of the abuse would go away, that it shouldn't be discussed.

But there are links. The abuse of children by priests didn't just happen in isolation, they were part of a pattern. Ditto the Asian abusing gangs up and down the country. It's not a coincidence so many of them exist, it's the result of shared cultural attitudes which make these crimes more likely to occur.

And as far as what bimbam has said, she might not have put it very well, but the Jay report said the non-Muslim victims were viewed as 'easy meat' or 'dirty slags'. The video I linked to earlier shows one of them referring to victims as being like shit on the floor to them.

And in the case of the Laura Wilson murder, it's well documented that the killers family was outraged a 'white whore' should be demanding her partner/s acknowledge their child/relationship.

limitedperiodonly · 24/11/2015 14:28

I haven't made a big study of it, but I don't believe that sharia law is all about chopping people's hands off.

I believe it is a respectable law system that some observant Muslims want to follow, like their opposite numbers in Judaism do with Beth Din.

I wouldn't want to follow either myself, but I wouldn't want to forbid that legal system if it was freely entered into and didn't over ride UK law.

As I say, I don't know that much about it, but I do strongly believe sharia has been corrupted by extremists and so the word has become shorthand for a particular type of person, such as probably Muslim taxi driver who makes unpleasant comments about a woman's appearance.

HelenaDove · 24/11/2015 14:29

They also should be compensating the women wrongfully imprisoned in the Magdelene laundries the last of which closed in 1996.

OP posts:
SheHasAWildHeart · 24/11/2015 14:29

abuse of children by priests
Key word here is priests, therefore the Catholic church had to take responsibility for it.

fuzzywuzzy · 24/11/2015 14:32

Booyaka what do you mean about the grooming ring?

They've been all rounded up and arrested and convicted have they not?

What else is there?

Puzzledandpissedoff · 24/11/2015 14:54

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 24/11/2015 14:55

victimhood narrative?

DeoGratias · 24/11/2015 15:05

freethoughtnation.com/what-does-the-koran-say-about-women/
The videos are good fun.

Booyaka · 24/11/2015 15:06

No, actually, the vast majority of the abusers in Rotherham haven't. Five people were convicted in 2010, but the Jay report etc have said that the abuse involved many more people who have not been convicted. I believe that there is another trial due next month, but I don't think anybody is pretending that even that will bring all, or even most involved to justice. There's also a problem that a lot of the evidence was 'lost' possibly deliberately.

bimandbam · 24/11/2015 15:06

I will apologise unreservedly for saying that or implying that all young Pakistani men think about white girls in that way. Not all of them do and that was my mistake. I don't even think that all of that group of people think that way so it was a genuine error.

I knew Laura Wilsons family and grew up a few minutes walk from where she lived. If you had grown up in that area I am pretty sure your opinions would be different.

I am actually very liberal. I have different views to my family and friends and people down the road. I like living in a culturally diverse area. I am actually quite intelligent when I try to be and studied philosophy at degree level. I am not religious but find different religions fascinating and absolutely believe that people have the right to worship.

But in my opinion religion did play a part in the abuse. Some muslims believe that their religion is the best and that anyone who does not worship at their alter is a lesser man (or woman or even girl). This contributed to making them feel like what they were doing was ok. The reason they targetted and groomed non muslim girls was because these girls were not the daughters or sisters of fellow muslims.

And because they weren't muslim girls it was ok to abuse and rape and pass them around their friends. It was ok to get them hooked on drugs or get them drunk and drive them around the country for the entertainment of their fellow muslims. It was ok to alienate them from their families and tear apart lives because they weren't muslim girls.

I am ashamed to say that my feelings about a whole sector of our society has changed. That whereas before this I would have gone out of my way to defend muslims I keep quiet now. I have moved areas to keep my dd safe. And my ds too. Not only do some muslims use the political correctness of society to hide sexual abuse in plain sight drugs are also a massive problem where we used to live.

I know that not all muslims of Pakistani origin are child abusers. But I know that some are and some are still walking around our town. And I suspect that many of the girls involved haven't and won't come forward.

A (bizarrely enough) taxi driver discussed this with me a few months ago. A news report mentioned it. He commented he was disgusted by it all and the men that did it should be ashamed of themselves. He then went on to say that it had brought so much shame on him and his family and all the other good muslims, how he didn't feel safe working at night anymore and how much racism he encountered now because of it.

Nothing about how ashamed he was because of the damage that had been done to families and the girls or the lives lost or destroyed because of it. Just how the aftermath was affecting him and his family and his community.

I am not saying that all muslims in Rotherham felt the same as him but that seems to be the general attitude. That what happened has brought shame on them. Not sorrow that it happened.

So my views on muslims has changed and not in a nice way. No one is born racist and up until a few years ago would have categorically denied I was racist. But if racism is defined as mistrusting a sector of society based on their country of origin or the colour of their skin or the God they worship then I could be classed as racist.

Many people in Rotherham are and they didn't used to be. It's not right and it's not an excuse but what has happened here has destroyed lives and families and it happened because of one race. Not one person or smll group of people. But a pretty big one. And on a massive scale that I believe is only skirted around by what has come to light.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 24/11/2015 15:06

Yes, Fanjo - as in the incessant remarks about demonization of all muslims, even where posters have been clear that they're referencing those actually responsible

Only one example among many, admittedly, but seemingly a key claim for those determined to avoid the real and very worrying issues among some of the community

Whattheuh · 24/11/2015 15:07

So much misinformation on this thread...sharia is a branch of Islam?sharia is the Islamic law.and no,islam(and the sharia law) doesn't say that white girls are slags and doesn't mention honour killings.show me a quranic verse that supports this accusations.what you are talking about is culture.pakistani culture for example is one of the most known for being at times very very different from Islam.other countries too obv.sharia taxi driver....if he was "sharia"he would not have been even looking at her,as Muslim men must lower their gaze...oh,no one knows that?surprised the daily fail never mention this kind of truths.

LimboNovember · 24/11/2015 15:16

I haven't made a big study of it, but I don't believe that sharia law is all about chopping people's hands off.

I believe it is a respectable law system that some observant Muslims want to follow, like their opposite numbers in Judaism do with Beth Din.

www.theguardian.com/law/2010/jul/05/sharia-law-religious-courts

According to human rights campaigner Gita Sahgal, "there is active support for sharia laws precisely because it is limited to denying women rights in the family. No hands are being cut off, so there can't be a problem …"

"Now a report, Sharia Law in Britain: A Threat to One Law for All and Equal Rights, reveals the adverse effect of sharia courts on family law. Under sharia's civil code, a woman's testimony is worth half of a man's. A man can divorce his wife by repudiation, whereas a woman must give justifications, some of which are difficult to prove. Child custody reverts to the father at a preset age; women who remarry lose custody of their children even before then; and sons inherit twice the share of daughters".

limitedperiodonly · 24/11/2015 15:18

Your message might make sense if you used spaces and conventional punctuation whattheuh.

Brioche201 · 24/11/2015 15:20

The story is in 'The Telegraph' too.

LimboNovember · 24/11/2015 15:21

"The demand for the abolition of sharia courts in Britain, as elsewhere, is not an attack on people's right to religion; it is a defence of human rights, especially since the imposition of sharia courts is a demand of Islamism to restrict citizens' rights".

"Rights, justice, inclusion, equality and respect are for people, not for beliefs and parallel legal systems. To safeguard the rights and freedoms of all those living in Britain, there must be one secular law for all and no religious courts".

Whattheuh · 24/11/2015 15:23

Limited,I did.I used spaces,commas and full stops.

fuzzywuzzy · 24/11/2015 15:24

Bimbam you wanted that taxi driver to apologise for and accept the shame and responsibility for the actions of those abusers?

Because he was Muslim?

So every single Muslim should accept responsibility for and apologise for the actions of a Pakistani paedophile ring?

The men's actions are abhorrent.

I do not know those men.

I had never even met those men.

I'm not Pakistani

Ive never been to Rotherham and I'd never heard of the place till this grooming ring was caught and put on the news.

what am I meant to be apologising for?

Brioche201 · 24/11/2015 15:27

I don't believe that sharia law is all about chopping people's hands off

No there's the stoning or flogging of rape victims too

limitedperiodonly · 24/11/2015 15:29

I agree Limbo, which is why I said I wouldn't use it myself. But seeing as we have Beth Din courts, I can't see any reason for refusing to have Sharia courts, so long as they do not pass sentences contrary to UK criminal law.

All sorts of people enter contracts within their families or communities. They don't have to be Jews or Muslims to do it.

Anyway, I apologise for going off on a tangent. My point was that however inelegantly expressed, we all know what she meant by 'Sharia taxi driver' just as we know what would be meant by 'EDL-type'.

TinklyLittleLaugh · 24/11/2015 15:31

I think BimBam wanted her taxi driver to realise that the victims of the Rotherham abuses were primarily the girls involved, not the Muslim community's reputation.

bimandbam · 24/11/2015 15:35

I didn't want or expect him to apologise fuzzywuzzy. I didn't really want to discuss the matter with him if I am honest.

But if I was to hear anything I wanted to hear that he was sad that it had happened and felt sympathy for the girls and families involved. And that he was shocked and disgusted that the various authorities hadn't protected the girls and the families involved. That he was sad that at least one young girl had lost her life.

Not because he was muslim or from Pakistan or because he was a taxi driver. But because he was human and lived in the area it had happened.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 24/11/2015 15:40

islam (and the sharia law) ... doesn't mention honour killings. show me a quranic verse that supports this accusation

Quran- 4:15 If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, take the evidence of four (reliable) witness from amongst you against them; if they testify, confine them to houses until death do claim them. Or God ordain for them some (other) way

Also this from www.questionsaboutislam.com Therefore, although Islam does prescribe 100 lashes for fornication, and death by stoning for adultery, these punishments are not really meant to be performed as much as they are meant to make these crimes hated in the eyes of the society in order to minimize their occurance

So although it's said that stoning is prescribed, we mustn't worry because they don't really mean it?? Awaits usual insistence that everything's a misinterpretation ...

MrWriter · 24/11/2015 15:47

I know little about Islam, but I if you look in the bible there are some crazy verses, which moderate Christians recognise as being old and out dated, and do not insist that the punishments are carried out.

I'd like to hope this is similar in the Muslim faith?

fuzzywuzzy · 24/11/2015 15:51

Bimbam I am sorry I completely misunderstood your earlier post.

I don't think the taxi driver should have been trying to discuss the incident with you either. He was trying to show you he felt remorse for the children involved.
It's quite typical in the Indian subcontinent to be ashamed as an expression of sorrow for an action of another person.

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