Cinema ban on the Lord's Prayer

[Leafitout]

Surely if anyone finds this advert offensive they can choose not to watch it. I can't see the problem with showing it.

'[frothing]..because it feels more like an intentionally reductive rhetorical device

What, like 'God is a bit of a bastard'? 'Sky fairy'? 'Imaginary friend'?

I would say that the God in the Old Testament was a bit of a bastard who had anger issues and self esteem issues

And some real problems with women.

You directed frothing at me. I have not made any of those statements you reference.

I'm more intrigued by all the non-Christians who apparently insist on church weddings to be honest.

Are you telling me that every church wedding you have been to, the bride and groom had repented, been redeemed and are living their lives for Christ?

...because I've been to three weddings this summer and not one of the couples lived their lives according to a faith in God.

What, like 'God is a bit of a bastard'? 'Sky fairy'? 'Imaginary friend'?

Let's all race to the bottom, shall we? Ice cream for whoever gets there first!

I think the former is different to the latter two. Discussing the nature of a deity as presented in the source text is I think reasonable (back to - I respect your right to your faith, but not the beliefs themselves, and I have strong views about the Biblical God). Your faith is not immune from critique simply by virtue of being a religion.

But interestingly, you can't accept that a poster finds something upsetting to her personally, based on her experiences, but you expect others to accept without explanation why you find some phrases unpalatable. Hmm.

No examples of the 'frothing', then?

Are you telling me that every church wedding you have been to, the bride and groom had repented, been redeemed and are living their lives for Christ

No, and I think you know that. I'm saying what I said originally - that your statement about the vast numbers of non-believers insisting on church weddings and christenings - including telling a poster you didn't believe her when she said she'd done neither - did not seem to be grounded in any sort of reality give the dwindling numbers getting married in any religious venue, which are smaller than the overall number identifying as Christian. Let alone the tiny number of babies who are baptised.

I of course cede to the three weddings you attended this year. They obviously trump official statistics from the last 30 years in what constitute objective fact.

And yes I have been abused physically, sexually, been homeless from teenage, missed out on education, self harmed, attempted suicide, been threatened with being sent to a magdalen laundry in Italy and many other horrible things which have all flowed from my family's belief that they are entitled to impose their religious practices on me. You don't have a monopoly on suffering and I shouldn't have to go through my entire life history to prove I deserve respect when I ask people not to pray for me.

I am sorry you have suffered. I have experienced four of the six things you mentioned above - plus some other grotesqueries I won't mention. However, it was the prayers of others that helped shape my recovery and I can vouch personally for the effect on my life others offers of prayer have had. I will never, ever stop praying for those I come across in my daily life..

But you clearly haven't experienced those things because of other people trying to impose their beliefs on you...

If you feel prayers helped you or your prayers helped some people around you that's your belief.

I am simply asking you to refrain from praying for me. That is all. You praying for me harms me. It undermines the lynchpin of your right to protection from the law.

Ego,please understand that my posts from and including page 34 were written and posted after catching up with the posts written before then. This means some of my posts from page 34 onwards were written before I read your account of all the abuse you have suffered at the hands of Catholic family; my posts from thereon in must seem particularly cold in light of this. Please know that this was not intentional, I simply hadn't caught up with the last five pages when I started to post in drips.

I don't feel it's appropriate for me to continue to engage now that your past experiences can be viewed through the lens of your posts on this thread. I don't want to argue about the merit of prayer with someone who has suffered at the hands of religious people. I hope you are okay

Aaargh! I am sorry, my post above should be addressed to Offred, of course.

It's ok faberge. I'm glad we have an understanding. Please don't feel bad it is just MN.

Offred, I stand by my views about prayer and my right to own my own thoughts and meditations about others, but it doesn't seem right to keep labouring the point now I know details of the suffering you've experienced at the hands of your family. It simply wouldn't be right for me to keep up this discourse when you have shared what you have. Again, I am sorry you went through all of that

Take care.

"". I like to frame my thoughts in prayer"

Good for you. Just don't do that when you're thinking about someone who doesn't want to be prayed for"

I have never, ever seen such an astonishingly blatant attempt at controlling another person. It brings the notion of a Thought Police to a really scary new level."

What an incredibly sheltered life you must have lead!

"It simply wouldn't be right for me to keep up this discourse when you have shared what you have."

Offred is not alone on this thread. There are others who are happy to continue the debate if she is not.

The issue of Christian's willingness to impose their beliefs and wishes on others is one that should be openly discussed.

"God, from all accounts was/is a bit of a bastard.

Yet another example of something that would never be uttered about Mohammed or Allah on Mumsnet."

Actually, I am happy to say that, from all accounts, Allah was/is a bit if a bastard too.

Dunno, but it's the law. I can pray..you can't do anything about it.

Ah, the good old MN mantra of "If it's legal, it's OK, it doesn't matter whether it's thoroughly inconsiderate and causes someone distress". Bit surprising coming from a self-proclaimed christian, though.

I think coming back onto a thread to tell someone that you were praying for them despite them repeatedly asking you not to is incredibly goady. I agree with the other posters who have said that it doesn't show Faberge and her interpretation of Christianity in the best light. It does, however, tie in with what most people see in Christianity.

Offred

Most people on this thread. There are obviously millions worldwide who will argue that it is wonderful and never hurts anyone

As long as the UK is officially a Christian country, I have no problem with major religious festivals being recognised in secular establishments. My understanding was that the cinema chain had agreed with the advert and only pulled out after it had been made - very irritating for the CofE.

bumbleymummy In light of Faberge's most recent post, you are the goady one.

It was nice of her to apologise. It was goady of her to come back on and say it in the first place.

If you look at all Faberge's posts, both those directed at offred and others, they are clearly goady; indeed, insisting on praying for someone who has repeatedly said she doesn't want to be prayed for, without bothering even to read the thread or ask why, is equally goady. Giving a belated apology to one person doesn't change any of that.

blytheandsebastian, how far does your acceptance of religious advertisements extend? Would you be equally happy with advertisements for scientology and Jehovah's Witnesses?